ceiling fans and attic fans

shredmaster · #1 07-18-2005, 04:10 PM

hey guys what's up? as i posted a couple months ago, my fiance and i bought our first townhome. no more apartments! it's lookin' sweet. it's a 2 story and only 9 years old! we had new carpeting installed, we painted the entire place, and ceramic tile will be next. looks brand new.

anyway, we need a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. it's a hotbox up there. our room is above the garage. i went up into the massively-hot attic and there is tons of insulation of course. there is no way to get to the master bedroom. there is no attic over the room. our room does not have a flat ceiling....kind of peaks up if you know what i mean....so there is no flat surface in the center to install a ceiling fan. i guess i could install it on one of the 2 30 degree angled ceiling walls. you know what i mean? but there are no lighting fixtures in the room now in the ceiling and there is no attic over the room....only the roof over our bedroom. so i can't get above the room and i can't get to wiring. any ideas? we thought of running wire down the ceiling, down the wall, and covering it with a plastic "encasing" for electrical. i don't know the terms or names of these things, sorry....i'm not mr. fix it.
there is a cold air return in the mini hall before the bedroom door and we will be adding another one up high before the ceiling.

also, i think i will call the association to have approved the installation of an attic fan....anyone have one and did you see an improvement? thanks,

steve

**jemsite** · #2 07-18-2005, 04:30 PM

That is the hassle of buying a new-ish home where the original owners didn't do things properly and cut costs on things like "overhead" lights. Very annoying... I know this first hand

sounds like the bedroom has a vaulted ceiling that has just a bit of clearance between the ceiling and your roof... hence no "attic" space above. That is no problem, but you need some skills to do a neat job in this case.

What I would recommend is you get a few quotes from licensed electricans for installing/wiring a 3-wire fan box (and hookup the fan if you can't do it yourself) and switch near the room entrance (or by the bed). Use a 3 wire so you can have independant light & fan operation from one switch. This would allow you to independantly set the fan level (even if you purchased a remote controlled fan) from the light.

then get a fan that has a downhang and can be installed on a vaulted (non-flat) ceiling. Most fans can do that... no problem.

You could use a wire raceway (encasing as you posted) but that will look quite clumsy...nevermind the fact you'd need to get a hot wire there and to the switch. In a pinch it's doable but the conduit will cost $$$ and is not cheap (nor is it invisible). You will need the "ceiling fan electrical box" which will attach to the joists above to safely hold the fan... glen

**jemsite** · #3 07-18-2005, 04:32 PM

ps - these help dramatically... along with another A/C return... glen

rgr · #4 07-18-2005, 05:57 PM

Yeah, Glen is right. We had wiring put in all of the rooms when we had our house built, you definitely want someone to run the wiring in the walls for you and do it right, you'll be glad in the long run. Those guys know all the "magic tricks" for running the wires to where you need them, that's what you pay for. In fact, if they are coming, get your ceiling fan put together and ready to hang, that part only takes 5 minutes and if they already have the ladder there...

We have a vaulted ceilings in our living room and bedroom, and have ceiling fans in both rooms, no problem.

Roger

shredmaster · #5 07-19-2005, 12:07 AM

thanks so much guys! i will have to hire someone. i have some friends who may know someone. i will try anything but i don't want to try this especially since there is no wiring at all in the ceiling. no attic above the ceiling, and the ceiling is not only high, but goes to a point......no parallel surface to the floor........you know what i mean.

i love to save money and do things on my own and my brother is mr. fix it but this is something that will take time and as it is we have to lay ceramic tile all throughout. thanks so much!

steve

shredmaster · #6 07-19-2005, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemsite

ps - these help dramatically... along with another A/C return... glen

glen, you were referring to the attic fan right? if i get approval from the association i will do it.

thanks!!!

steve

**jemsite** · #7 07-19-2005, 12:20 AM

sorry for the confusion.... the attic fan that vents thru the roof helps a bit but won't really cool the room... it will just make your AC a bit more efficient and take some heat out of the dead space. you'll definately need approval as you must cut thru the rooof and install at the high point.

it won't help cool the room however to any degree compared to another A/C return and the ceiling fan. ceiling fans help dramatically

....glen

bammbamm · #8 07-19-2005, 01:31 AM

With the ceiling fan, in my experience, vaulted ceilings are a PITA to run any kind of wiring through. You will most DEFINATELY have to open up at least a couple points in the wall and ceiling at best. at worst MORE than a couple as you'll need/ want a switch and fan control by the doorway which most likely will be on a wall adjacent to the wall that the vault angles down to, making a run quite fun. it can be done, but you willl PAY...

And seriously, don't have "my wife's cousin's sister's husband, who used to work as a janitor in a grade school" do it this is something that NEEDS to be run in conduit, especially if you're in the Chicago city limits, the codes are there for a reason and romex or some other non armoured wiring will pose a huge risk in the event of a fan motor failure. ALL wire insulation deteriorates, some slower than others, but have you ever worked on the old cloth insulation from old homes? The stuff will fall apart in your hands, imagine that happening in the sealed up ceiling in 20 years (provided you remain there) and just causing an electrical fire taht the inopportune point in time. stuff like that happens, if you're in conduit, you're shielded and have a strong layer of protection from a fialure and most likely a breaker will trip 1st.

Anyway, point of the rambling is, have a qualified guy run it in conduit. Crappy part is it will cost ya and be messy as you'll need to patch and repaint where the work was done.

Wiremold looks like poop, it gets the job done, but it ALWAYS looks like a hack job, even when done properly.
http://www.wiremold.com/www/commerci...photos/300.jpg

best to have it done right.

Good luck and let us know what you do.

Hope all is well BTW,

Bamm

shredmaster · #9 07-20-2005, 11:24 PM

well i called a couple electricians. based on what i said over the phone one guy wants around $1500. (@#($(@@!!!! few more calls. we just painted the room and he's talkin' about tearin' down the walls.

i think what i might do is that wiremold stuff BUT i will only go from the fan to where the ceiling meets the wall.......and run it through the wall at that point. from there i will crawl through the attic and continue running wires up there to somewhere. the attic starts where our room ends so that should work. too bad the attic doesn't go over the room...there would be no issue. i figure that wiremold stuff won't look too bad going from middle of the ceiling to the end of the ceiling. and it's a peaked cathedral ceiling so it would be less worse as well....if that's a phrase. you know what i mean.

this is just a thought. i really don't want to tear down my walls and then rebuild, patch, paint again! we just finished that.

**jemsite** · #10 07-20-2005, 11:43 PM

you need to figure out which way the beams run in the ceiling. since you need to install a fan-hanger electrical box (spreads itself out between the joists) you should try to fish a wire from the ceiling box thru to teh crawl space. you might not need "wire molding at all". it's unlikely, but it might be possible to snake a wire between the sheetrock and the ceiling joists (or between the roof and ceiling).

then you can use a remote controlled fan and bypass the "switch" if you have an off switch somewhere for safety... glen

bammbamm · #11 07-21-2005, 12:38 AM

I REALLLY wouldn't advise Romex, if you're going to "fish" it at least use BX (flexi-conduit) so you have some level of protection.

Bamm

shredmaster · #12 07-21-2005, 02:52 PM

i will keep that in mind. i have no idea when it comes to this stuff other than common sense and lots of reading. i'll be a pro when it's done. i also have to ceramic tile the kitchen and hallway and bathroom downstairs. never did that....i spent all my younger years....hey i'm still young.....playing guitar, not doing home stuff....that was dad's job.

i will tell you this....i don't really want to destroy walls. we just got done plastering and painting last week! i will probably run that along the ceiling and into the wall where the attic starts. from there, i have no idea. my brother will help out......

.....OR......BAMM, you live close to me.......hehehe.

rgr · #13 07-21-2005, 03:25 PM

Good luck on that tile thing, I just did our kitchen, dining room and half bath. Invest in good knee pads and you might want to consider wrist guards, crawling around and reaching really strained the wrist of the hand that I had on the ground for support, it's still healing.

Roger

bammbamm · #14 07-22-2005, 02:13 AM

Hey, if you wanna pay for me to rip your walls out, fine with me, I've done it before.
I spent last summer here completely gutting our bathroom while my wife was in Greece for 3 weeks.
Tear out all the way to the studs and joists and replaced EVERYTHING.
Tub, plumbing, electric, subfloor, concrete board and tile.
1st time I had done such a big project all on my own.

When you look at the finished project, it is rather satisfying to be able to say that you did it.

Sands · #15 07-22-2005, 02:19 AM

Forget the fan. You'll still be hot. You'll be blowing hot air all over the place. Get a killer window unit air conditioner! Set it on "Meat Locker" and you'll be happy as Popsicle!

-Eric