I just don't know anymore...

[andy7jem]

Originally Posted by guitar_chick

Sorry guys, I know the last thing you want to hear is the female's perspective.

You are every bit as entitled to your opinion as anyone. And a little diversity keeps the place interesting. No need for any apologies

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

Yes, there are some. BUT.....women don't usually go for them. They prefer the bad people coz they're "more exciting"

You hit the nail in the head!!! before I met my wife I had one too many bitter experiences!!! many chicks nowadays just want to have fun not a serious relationship!

[jb4674]

Sick-boy,

First of all, I just want to let you know that I really feel for you man. Marriage is not an easy thing to venture into. As I've read the entire thread with everyone's comments and views on your situation, I agree with a lot of the comments made here. I hope you don't mind me telling you my story so far, so that perhaps you can use that as reference in your future endeavors, should you decide to marry someone again someday or should you and your wife stay together.

As a married person, I can honestly tell you, marriage is a constant learning experience. The first year is by far the roughest in a marriage because you are actually getting to know your spouse all over again. Never mind the little outfits, the nights you went clubbing, the dates at the theater and all the other things you did together. Once the "I Do's" were said, you actually met the real her and vice versa. My wife and I had arguments, fights and all those things during our first year. Things got even more complicated because I come from a hispanic background where my family is very close and warm, while her family is not as close and definitely not as warm as they are caucasian (and this is not a putdown). Her immediate family consists of 7people, while mine easily tops 50 people and they are all in close proximity to one another. She had a big learning curve with regards to learning to know who was who and whether or not she was truly welcomed in my family as a member. I, on the other hand, had a hard time with her family's coldness and how distant they were to each other with regards to seeing one another, calling each other all the time and scheduling things far far in advance for a simple occassion such as a birthday.
I remember my wife and I having an argument one day and she pulled the divorce card on me. After the argument had stopped, we talked (the same night) and I told her that if she ever were to say that she wanted a divorce again, she better mean it because I wasn't going to threaten that against her if I didn't really mean that. To this day, that word has not been thrown out there in my home. We both agreed that it wouldn't be said unless one of us felt that way truly. There have been otherr arguments, like being late for things (which is one of her worst pet peeves), but I managed to compromise. Her family is very anal when it comes to time, while my family isn't. When my family throws a party or something and they tell you "be there at 5", you can show up at 8 and no one is going to say anything to you. When her family says "be there at 5", that really means be there before 5, or they are going to lose it. Little by little she has understood and acknowledged my quirks and I have done the same regarding her. We compromise on certain things and we don't in others because that's just how a marriage is. I remember one time we had an argument about something that took a very emotional toll on me and I wound up crying (yes damn it, I'm man enough to admit it). Because of the way she had been raised with that "coldness" she saw me crying and didn't even do anything about giving me moral support in the form of a hug or something (remember how I said my family was warm?). After I asked her with tears in my eyes to hold me and hug me, it completely shocked her. Later on, she told me that she really understood why I had the perception of her family being cold when she hugged me. It made such an impact on her, that she now points things out to me that she feels her family does because of their cold nature and that will not happen when our baby is born.

So you see, marriage is a compromise, an understanding of the person and how to learn to meet each other half way.

I recall you saying earlier in the post that you spoke to your priest regarding an annullment. I'm going to assume you're catholic because I am as well. One thing I can tell you that really helped the both of us learn to know each other before the marriage so we could lay our cards out in front of each other and say "this is something the bothers me, this is something that I fear, etc." was our priest' requirement for us to attend an "Engaged Encounter" course before our priest could continue to prepare us for marriage (this was months before the wedding). I can honestly tell you that if you are ever going to consider marrying someone someday or decide to work things out, you should make every attempt to find that course and take it with her. We learned things about each other that we didn't know about. This course was administered by 2 couples; one who had been married for over 40 years, and one that had been married less than 3 years. There were about 20 or so couples in the course, so we got to hear things about everything from arguing about what brand of toothpaste a couple should buy, to one couple telling the other person that they did not want to have children ever.

One of the biggest lessons we both learned in that class was to never go to bed without resolving an argument. As I told you earlier, my wife and I have had arguments but, we've always managed to sit down afterwards and talk it out and get it resolved. Don't ever let something linger for more than a day to resolve it, it only creates a bigger problem and sometimes the problem can become so big that divorce is the only option.

I'm not going to bust your balls about the amount of time you and your wife dated before you married each other. Obviously you have learned your lesson and I'm sure that you will take your time to get to know somebody before taking the next step.

You are young and have a lot to experience before settling down with someone. Sometimes we all yearn for that kind of stage but, I can honestly tell you that there's no need to rush. I'm sure you've done the clubs, the parties and all those other fun things and you're ready to move to the next level. Since that hasn't worked for you, perhaps you need to analyze why. Maybe the common friends you both have are playing a role in that. Try making new friends, try hanging out with older people. Sometimes having older friends can allow you to see a marriage from another angle.

One thing that I found quite concerning was that she went to her mom's house and she passed out at a party her mom was having. It makes me wonder how her family is in relation to yours? Was she a wild girl when you met her? Were you? Is the father of the little girl still in the picture? Does he provide for her?

I know you're ready to throw your towel down and be done with it. I would strongly suggest you not to do it yet until you have had a chance to go to counseling and at least try to work things out. One of the biggest problems in this country from a sociological standpoint is that people get divorced like it's nothing. Remember when you both looked at each other and promised to each other to be there in good times and in bad times? Did you think that was just a line? As Olie said, there is always another side to the story and I'm sure you have some skeletons in your closet as well (I'm not taking anybody's side, that's just the truth) and she's got some things that she's not too pleased about you as well.

You should talk to your parents and her parents at the same time and tell them everything that has happened, not just what she's done but what you've done as well. If divorce is imminent as you pointed out, then you've got nothing to hide.

I really wish you well sick-boy and I hope everything works out for you one way or another. Meanwhile I, along with the rest of your friends at Jemsite, will be here for you.

Sorry for the long-winded post

Jimmy

[Myst and rain]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

Yes, there are some. BUT.....women don't usually go for them. They prefer the bad people coz they're "more exciting"

The most important things to MOST women (not all, before you tell me off ) are money first then image. The person inside doesn't seem to count

I see that a lot around me too. Women who like 'the bad boy'. It turns my stomach. But I don't care, really, because I wouldn't be happy in a relationship with most of these women anyway.

Alwin

[shredmaster]

well, maybe you can tell my wife she's lucky...hehe. no, she'll just get jealous since you're a girl....that's another thing....too much jealousy in the world. life is too short. enjoy it. i'm trying to do that each day. i'm working my ass off trying to make money, play more guitar, record another CD, build my photo and video biz, and starting the recording studio again when we move in a few months. i never sleep. i learned long ago to surround yourself with what you love and things will come to you. never put yourself in a situation where you whole-heartedly have to rely on someone else. that may sound cold but if you rely on someone too much and they leave, your "safety net" is gone and you fall hard. also, try not to do special things while trying to get over someone. don't do things you normally wouldn't do, since this will only remind you of why you are doing them....make sense?

jb4674, i thought the non-close caucasian thing was hilarious....i'm caucasian and come from a large italian family. we are really close. my wife's immediate family is sort of close but not like us. she doesn't get how i love to talk. granted, i talk all the time. i have a lot to say. she doesn't so much. we are very much opposites and it gets on me at times. i'm the creative one into many things who loves to talk and she loves to read and watch tv. we meet in the middle with going to movies and values of family and friends and animals...some other stuff too. but, like you, she found it weird when i was crying or very depressed. she just couldn't understand why i couldn't just "move on."

guitar chick, you'll find someone, i know. i have a friend who is in the same boat as you. she has met nothing but your stereotypical musician who is into one thing mainly. we hung out at a club one night, years ago, and i walked her to her car and even opened the door for her. she gave me this look like she saw a ghost. when i asked her what is wrong she said no one has ever opened the door for me or even walked me to the car. ARE YOU KIDDING? i just couldn't believe it. she still hasn't found mr. right and i feel bad since she is the nicest girl. we almost dated but it just didn't happen...a ships in the night type thing. we are still in touch.

sickboy, i hope you are doing alright, but i know the wounds are still fresh. if you wanna chat or whatever, send me a message and we'll go from there. i give you a lot of credit for doing what you're doing. deep down i think you know it's right to move on. it's a rough road and you have doubts and are more than likely 2nd guessing yourself on this all the time. that is normal. you're a great guy. do what you need to do to heal yourself. counseling can work but only if the other person is willing to listen and make it work. just like band practice. you can't make someone attend and if they do and aren't into it.....you won't get any songs written.

Steve

[sick-boy]

There's so many responses I want to give to all of the posts, and I wish I could go into more detail, but I'm just too exhausted right now. I'm currently ten pounds underweight. I wish I could eat, but my stomach won't allow it.
As some of you have said, there's more to this story. I'm not trying to make myself out to be a saint, because I'm far from it. But believe me, there are more people seeing things my way. Even her mom was supporting me. Firstly, she was confused as to why her kids were partying on a Thursday night anyway. Secondly, she didn't know that my wife hadn't told me what was going on. She assumed that I knew where she was at and what she was doing.

She has many issues. I brought up counseling to her, both individually and marriage counseling, but she kind of avoided the subject. So she must be feeling like it's time to end soon, as well. I just don't understand why she has trouble putting away childish things.
I'll give a perfect example:
When we were first together, I'll admit that I liked to smoke pot from time to time. Not like a pothead, but once every month or so. Well, the first time I did and she found out, she told me how disappointed she was. Her ex-boyfriend had been a major pothead, and I think that affected her. She thought I would start smoking all the time. So I told her I wouldn't do it anymore, ever. And I haven't. Especially after we got married, and I found myself being a stepfather, and I realized that I had responsibilities. The only things about me that have changed has been things that make me better. I grew to be a better person. I became a good father and husband, I found my faith in God, and I even picked up a guitar again.
Meanwhile, she seems to have gone downward in behavior.

It also doesn't help that she tells me all the time about how her daughter comes first. I knew that it would be that way coming into a marriage with a single mother. What I saw was another story, however. Her daughter was getting put on the backburner a lot because she would rather run off and get drunk or sit on the computer doing whatever. My wife also said that she wanted to build a career for herself. Meanwhile, she's failing classes left and right because she would rather chat on the internet or go party instead of putting in the time to get good grades. I just think in the end she lacks the ambition to be a good wife and good mother and she doesn't realize that there does come a time to put away childish things. It's like my cousin told me: "I just don't get why she can't stop. If she really loves you and [her daughter] as much as she says, then she would have no problem stopping."

I couldn't agree more. The hardest part for me, and I do mean that this is the absolutely hardest thing, is wondering what is going to happen to her daughter. If my wife wants to party and hang out with other people who want to do the same thing, what kind of men does she think she's going to attract? Certainly not the kind that would be a good influence on her daughter. An believe me, her daughter has so much potential. She is really getting smart for her age, and she has no problem with interacting with other people and children. I just hate to see what would become of that potential. In a way I have to put myself into a sociopathic mindset just to say I don't care. But I do.
I've told a few people this. My whole life I prayed to God that I would get married and have a daughter. Now I have it. So no matter what happens. I remarry someday and we have a child, I don't think I could look at the child as my first born. I will always see my stepdaughter as my first born. Every May 12 I'll think "It's her birthday today." And in a decade and a half I'll think "She should be graduating soon."
And the same goes for my wife. I keep trying to be cold, but I just can't. I still care for both of them. I still feel like it's my duty to be there for them when they need me. I feel like I can never turn my back on them completely, and that's the problem that I'm facing right now.

Damn, I already wrote more than I intended...

And to respond to guitar_chick's post a few back: Yes, some guys do want to just hold you. It's hard to believe, but there are still men out there who do not make sex their primary goal in life. Some of us still value things like love, honor, and respect for women.
Unfortunately for me, and I mean no offense to any females that may read this, I think it will be a long time before I can view any woman in a pure light. Instead of seeing purity and beauty I'm going to be worried about what dark secrets they may be hiding, or wondering what nefarious purposes they have in store for me.

[jb4674]

Well, it sounds to me like all the options have been exhausted. It would be in your best interest to move on. You need to eat (no ifs ands or buts about it, that's just not healthy). I know how you're feeling man, you're feeling as if your entire world is crumbling down because nothing is ever going to be the same again. Unfortunately for you, you're a caring person. Unfortunately for her, she has lost the best thing that has ever happened to her. Don't worry about the little girl. It sounds like your mother in law will eventually take care of her because she's been made aware of her daughter's care-free lifestyle.

You should make some long term plans and perhaps when you manage to fully part ways, consider moving somewhere else. A change of scenery can give you a better perspective on life and its issues. You have nothing to feel sad about. You were there for the little girl as a father figure, and that's not something most guys are willing to put up with.

If she hasn't valued the importance of an education, she will learn it eventually. Although it may be too late when she gets to realize it, she will learn it nonetheless. I don't know if you're on the same boat (meaning going to school currently) but, if you're not, you might want to consider enrolling yourself in school. Depression and sadness love it when you're inactive and stagnant, that's when they can take over. You need to keep yourself occupied and focus on important things. If you and her have common friends, now is the time to separate yourself from them. The lesser amount of common interests you have with her, the better it will be.

Don't be afraid to open up man, we're here for you.

Jimmy

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by guitar_chick

It is difficult being on the receiving end of a guy only wanting you to fulfill his "animal-like" needs. I've been thinking a lot lately, that I cannot remember the last time a guy just held me. Hell, I cannot even remember the last time I spent a whole night with a guy sleeping. I have a bed full of big pillows to try and substitute. You guys have given me an awful lot to think about here the last few days. Some of it is a little disheartening. Do guys really not want to just hug a girl? Maybe I should not say anything, since I'm female and probably wrong.

I think you read something into my post that wasn't intended. i know plenty of ladies who have more sexual urges than their mates so i don't think the stereotype of males having only sex on the brain is accurate whatsoever in America. Also, any male who ever tried the "i'm tired honey, maybe tomorrow" routine knows pretty well never to repeat that. Again it's a woman thing and difference of communication. Either way i'd call the sexual desires/needs of males and femals pretty much a wash.

What i am saying however is that even in the ONE AREA where men and women are compatible (physical sex) they aren't really that compatible either. they're compatible in a reproductive way, not emotional way.

oil and vinegar... glen

[sick-boy]

Well, I just talked some more to her. This is basically what I said.

"I thought I was done fighting for my marriage. But I'm not. Some how God has continued to give me strength when I didn't think I had anymore. So this is what I propose. I will find somewhere to store my stuff, and just crash with friends whenever I can. That way you can have the space you need to think things through, and I can have the space I need. I want to try counseling at least once. It's not the councilors are there to necessarily keep the marriage together, more like they can help us discern what we really want. If we still feel like we are not going to work out after that, then I have no problem letting go of you. But I won't have any papers filed until I feel that I've truly exhausted all of my options. Because I've already invested so much time and energy and emotion into this that I can't just give up without knowing that I've done everything that I can."

She said she would try to get some time off of work. Then we could have some more time to talk about it and try to find a councilor. I guess we just have to go from there. I'm trying to remain objective, so that I'm neither pessimistic nor optimistic. But if any of you are the praying types, I could use all the help I can get.

[JJEMMER777]

Originally Posted by jemsite

oil and vinegar... glen

Venus and Mars Glen - I have to disagree just a little bit here. I think women and men can be like minded and compatible. It's just VERY hard to find, but I know MANY couples that will probably be together for a life time. Sharing the same interestes is HUGE and that old adage "opposites attract" is ridiculous

Originally Posted by guitar_chick

I've been thinking a lot lately, that I cannot remember the last time a guy just held me.

Oh they're out there hun. Don't let all this get to ya. Most of us have had the heart ripped out and stomped on, so the ~chick bash~ stems from that I'm sure. I know it does for me.

It really just comes down the the "PERSON" and not the "SEX" of the person.

There are good people out there.....somewhere, right???

But one fact remains solid though and that is Females (good OR bad) change constantly. Ya'll bring it on yourselves

I KNOW you won't disagree with me


Sicky: that is a good sign (hopefully) Obvioulsy the marriage means something to her. I hope you two can work it out

[guitar_chick]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

The person inside doesn't seem to count

Well, I must be in the minority, because the person inside speaks volumes to this little chickie. For me, what I observe from guys around me, is that they all want the babes that look like swimsuit models or sorority girls. I get my share of compliments from time-to-time, but I am told I am cute, pretty, or sexy. Guys seem to go for the hot, beautiful babes.

I've had many a guy cry on my shoulder cause one of these bodacious babes really hurt them. I used to do hair, so I got a lot of shoulder crying, like a bartender. Sorry guys, but the really hot babes tend to be the users. I've seen and heard the story time and time again. My brother married a hot babe that she cheated and left in the end; just picked up and walked out one day and would never tell him why.

I too used to go for the bad-boy types, but not anymore. I feel like I can spot them a mile away now. That is why the bed full of pillows, cat, and dog. I don't want to rest on my laurels or ideals.

[guitar_chick]

Originally Posted by jemsite

I think you read something into my post that wasn't intended. ...What i am saying however is that even in the ONE AREA where men and women are compatible (physical sex) they aren't really that compatible either. they're compatible in a reproductive way, not emotional way.

oil and vinegar... glen

Thanks for the clarification, Glen. Sorry I misunderstood. I just keep hearing from guys that they don't want to hold a girl, not here on this forum, just my own experiences. Guy friends have told me that they just want to do their business and leave. They don't want to hold and talk to a woman. They find it a nuisance, and doesn't understand why the woman gets upset by this.
Maybe I should rethink what kind of individuals I'm associating with. I see your whole thesis that men and women are extremely different from each other.

[JJEMMER777]

Originally Posted by guitar_chick

I just keep hearing from guys that they don't want to hold a girl

Where are you meeting these guys....?? You may be going to the wrong type of bars.

You do know to check for rainbows on the entrance sign...right??

I don't know of any guy (that IS a GUY) that doesn't like holding his lady tight

[guitar_chick]

Funny, I don't go to bars anymore much. I just leave it to chance, but maybe my 'hood isn't the greatest. They do show Kansas City a lot on "Cops" on t.v. "Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you? Bad boys..."

I will start looking for those rainbow signs.

[JJEMMER777]

Originally Posted by guitar_chick

I will start looking for those rainbow signs.

"Houston.......we have a problem"