star wars debates

[shredmaster]

the good thing about where i work is the crew i work with. it's a talkshow every morning, very much like THE OFFICE, with constant gags and blatant slams against each other.

i thought i would bring these couple questions to you. apparently these few topics are huge on forums with people who have much time on their hands, but being a major star wars fan, i thought i would bring these to you guys as well. this discussion went on today for about 4 or 5 hours. last week was time travel and quantum physics, the week before that, what would be a better exoskeleton for battle, and how would you go about cooling such a system? i was a little lost in that one ...these guys are just out there...very smart...and also very raw in humor....very entertaining.....anyway......

1) in EP 4 from 1977, when vader was in the conference room and Grand Moff Tarkin says "Vader, release him......." vader says "as you wish."

what is that? is tarkin over vader? why did vader comply? our thought, 2 against 1, is that tarkin and vader were equals. tarkin was in charge of overseeing the deathstar construction and vader, the evil and the troops. even leia said she wasn't surprised to see him holding vader's leash. so maybe vader wasn't that high in the ranks yet? but he was, right from the start.

2) at the end of EP3, most recent film, when vader and the emperor are standing at the window admiring the half-completed first deathstar. so this was about half-done when luke and leia were born. did it take about 18 years to finish it? and then luke blew it up right when it was done? since in the board room of EP4, they mentioned that it is NOW the ultimate power in the universe. meaning, it was recently completed. so, if that is the case...after luke blows it up...they start a new one...how long did that one take? it was half finished in the period of 1 year? or 2 years? or 4 hours? however long it was between star wars and empire strikes back time-wise.

the guys were thinking there was a 2nd one being built at the same time as the first...the first, being a beta while the final was being built and the bugs being worked out, since, admittedly, there were bugs in the first....this lead to the discussion on how the ventilation systems were all wrong, and the reactor took way too long to recharge between firings....1 hour, while the new deathstar was just a few minutes. etc.....it got pretty deep....hehehe. they referenced wikipedia and other forums...hehehe. discussions really turn to discussions over here, especially with these 2.

i can't remember the 3rd point of discussion....

steve

[jemsite]

i've been watching these alot as my older one really is into them and her little sister now likes them too. 20-30 minutes before bedtime a few nights a week...

Originally Posted by shredmaster

1) in EP 4 from 1977, when vader was in the conference room and Grand Moff Tarkin says "Vader, release him......." vader says "as you wish."

what is that? is tarkin over vader? why did vader comply? our thought, 2 against 1, is that tarkin and vader were equals. tarkin was in charge of overseeing the deathstar construction and vader, the evil and the troops.

Vader released him figuring it was in the best interest of the project. How many top guys can he suffocate. LOL.

Emperor > Vader >>>>>> everyone else in the Empire

Originally Posted by shredmaster

2) at the end of EP3, most recent film, at the end, when vader and the emperor are standing at the window admiring the half-completed deathstar. so this was about half-done when luke and leia were born. so, did it take about 18 years to finish it?

general inconsistancy, sort alike Uncle Owen's age. But an explaination could be the Death Star was built earlier, but took 18 years to have the power/capability to destroy a planet (ie. Alderon in EP4)

Originally Posted by shredmaster

the guys were thinking there was a 2nd one being built at the same time as the first...the first, being a beta while the final was being built and the bugs being worked out, since, admittedly, there were bugs in the first....this lead to the discussion on how the ventilation systems were all wrong, etc.....it got pretty deep....hehehe. they referenced wikipedia and other forums...hehehe. discussions really turn to discussions over here, especially with these 2.

once you invent/build something it's alot easier to duplicate it from a template. the 2nd Death Star wasn't seen in ep5 and was first mentioned in the scrolling intro to ep6 sorta putting the "build a beta" theory to rest.

i find the K.I.S.S. theory applies to any movie such as this... glen

[elcid]

Dont forget the Clerks debate.
When the orignal Death Star was blown up, it was done being built, no problem, evil is punished.
When the second Death Star was blown up it was still being built, so thousands of innocent contractors were also killed. Do you think the average stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing in white uniforms

[Inzane]

Just a couple of the big inconsistencies. I had a lot of problems with the way EpIII was wrapped up. The last ~ 15 minutes or so Lucas just decided to cram as many loose end tie-ups as he could. It was "wreckless"!

There was no reason to show Padme alive after childbirth only long enough to give the babies NAMES... and then die. That was cheese. (why couldn't Obi-Wan, or Yoda, or the adopted parents named them at some later moment?? Surely it was implied who these children were... but NO, we have to actually hear them named to believe it.)

Showing us the death star under construction already. That was cheese too.

Having Obi-wan and Yoda on the actual Tantive IV ship... cheese again.

It was a little TOO tidy, IMO.

[the.godfather]

Originally Posted by jemsite

Emperor > Vader >>>>>> everyone else in the Empire

I always understood that, I mean, The Emporer could electocute you afterall with thunderbolts coming out of his hands. But he has one distinct weakness, and that's his speed. Cos lets face it, he aint gonna be as quick as he used to be. He is just an old man afterall. I doubt it's within his capabilities to walk briskly anywhere, let alone run!

Although I suppose speed counts for nothing when your fighting the force. You couldn't exactly sprint up to suprise The Epmorer from behind could you. Because he is experienced in 'the force' he probably knew you were coming, and would be waiting for you.

[kirk]

Originally Posted by shredmaster

1) in EP 4 from 1977, when vader was in the conference room and Grand Moff Tarkin says "Vader, release him......." vader says "as you wish."

Tarkin could be the friend who tells you to "cut it out" when you're beating another friend into a pulp.

I'm still trying to figure out why so much time was wasted on the love affair between Anakin and Padme when these scenes could have been shortened and replaced with more of the details like those mentioned in this thread. I think more could have been said with random glances between the two - no need to insult my intelligence and spell out the fact that their love was forbidden. Let's face it, George didn't attract any more female fans because of the horrible dialogues between Padme and Anakin.

Another useless piece of the films were the pod races - ok we get it, Anakin was a good pilot. The game that Chewy and R2 were playing on the Falcon was more interesting and lasted an hour less. I ALWAYS fall asleep during the pod races.

I understand that this thread isn't about bashing the films, so I'll stop complaining now and do like Glen said - KISS and enjoy the show.

[voodoo_child]

Originally Posted by shredmaster

...these guys are just out there...very smart...and also very raw in humor....very entertaining.....anyway......

[andy7jem]

^^^

Some people think too much!!!!! As a film it bears little resembalnce to reality.

Some-one will be asking next why Bart, Lisa and Maggie haven't grown up

[jimmyfingersminion]

point 1

it's generally understood that vader was the emperor's right hand man, but that the grand moffs had control over their own areas of space (ie tarkin's was the outer rim). so technically speaking, it is possible that on various matters, tarkin out-ranks vader.

point 2

chances are it was a prototype being built, being as the 'new plans' were only finalised at the end of epII

[Hikey Mikey]

I thought about kicking in on this thread a couple of times but didn't. I thought about why I was hesitant, and I guess the only thing I have to say is that I'm disappointed that Lucas didn't end up defining his world a little better. I was and am a HUGE Star Wars fan but these kind of debates only interest me for a little while.

He set such a high standard with his first film that even he couldn't live up to it from an imaginative point of view.

This is one case where the phrase "a picture's worth a thousand words" just isn't true. Consider the example of J. R. R. Tolkien and how well HE defined his world of Middle-Earth. Heck, he even wrote a creation story in _The Silmarillion_. Tolkien used tens of thousands of words to paint a picture. Some of the continuity errors and "inconsistencies" and "loose ends" folks have pointed out in this thread are the result of:

1) Lucas's imaginative reach exceeding his grasp, and his subsequent attempt to make up for it with special effects, and

2) the limitations of the film medium in its ability to provide context and history to an image.

[markg5150]

Originally Posted by elcid

Dont forget the Clerks debate.
When the orignal Death Star was blown up, it was done being built, no problem, evil is punished.
When the second Death Star was blown up it was still being built, so thousands of innocent contractors were also killed. Do you think the average stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing in white uniforms

ROFLMAO - nobody thinks of the little guy

If 1 stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet then they all do, they are clones afterall

Star Wars is great as long as you don't try and make sense of it all. Whats with the new ending of Episode 6 with the new Annakin and not David Prowse - its just plain wrong !!! They should never have re-made the Ep 4,5 &6 with the extra footage and stuff - Greedy Geroge Lucas !!!

[andy7jem]

Originally Posted by markg5150

Whats with the new ending of Episode 6 with the new Annakin and not David Prowse - its just plain wrong !!!

I thought that sucked too

There were disturbing things in there after they released the original three!!! I mean, through the first two films (released) Luke has a boner for Leia big-time and they sneak the odd kiss. Then, low and behold.....right at the end of the next film.......she's he's sister!!!!! So.....does he still wanna do her???? EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!! Incest is NEVER cool folks (although if Leia was my sister............. ONLY kiddin' )


Now.....with all that fur Chewie must have had problems with cr@p getting matted in it after going for a dump!!! I reckon the big guy must have whiffed a bit!!!!

And..........what were the chances of Luke crash landing RIGHT NEXT TO Yoda's house!!!!! C'mon people

[jb4674]

Originally Posted by shredmaster

the good thing about where i work is the crew i work with. it's a talkshow every morning, very much like THE OFFICE, with constant gags and blatant slams against each other.

i thought i would bring these couple questions to you. apparently these few topics are huge on forums with people who have much time on their hands, but being a major star wars fan, i thought i would bring these to you guys as well. this discussion went on today for about 4 or 5 hours. last week was time travel and quantum physics, the week before that, what would be a better exoskeleton for battle, and how would you go about cooling such a system? i was a little lost in that one ...these guys are just out there...very smart...and also very raw in humor....very entertaining.....anyway......

1) in EP 4 from 1977, when vader was in the conference room and Grand Moff Tarkin says "Vader, release him......." vader says "as you wish."

what is that? is tarkin over vader? why did vader comply? our thought, 2 against 1, is that tarkin and vader were equals. tarkin was in charge of overseeing the deathstar construction and vader, the evil and the troops. even leia said she wasn't surprised to see him holding vader's leash. so maybe vader wasn't that high in the ranks yet? but he was, right from the start.

2) at the end of EP3, most recent film, when vader and the emperor are standing at the window admiring the half-completed first deathstar. so this was about half-done when luke and leia were born. did it take about 18 years to finish it? and then luke blew it up right when it was done? since in the board room of EP4, they mentioned that it is NOW the ultimate power in the universe. meaning, it was recently completed. so, if that is the case...after luke blows it up...they start a new one...how long did that one take? it was half finished in the period of 1 year? or 2 years? or 4 hours? however long it was between star wars and empire strikes back time-wise.

the guys were thinking there was a 2nd one being built at the same time as the first...the first, being a beta while the final was being built and the bugs being worked out, since, admittedly, there were bugs in the first....this lead to the discussion on how the ventilation systems were all wrong, and the reactor took way too long to recharge between firings....1 hour, while the new deathstar was just a few minutes. etc.....it got pretty deep....hehehe. they referenced wikipedia and other forums...hehehe. discussions really turn to discussions over here, especially with these 2.

i can't remember the 3rd point of discussion....

steve

So my answers are:

1) Vader released him because Tarkin was in charge of the ship and had more time under his belt serving the empire (didn't you see how old he looked?)

2) Luke didn't blow up the deathstar completely the first time. Pay attention to the movie and you'll see that when luke drops the bombs, it doesn't really blow up like it did on Jedi. There wasn't a 2nd deathstar built. read the books, talk to people at lucasfilm and you'll see. Also, pay attention in Jedi as to the state of the deathstar in relation to the first one that supposedly got blown up. Keep in mind that when vader shows up at the deathstar, it simply is being rebuilt from what was left of the first one.

That's what I think anyway...........

Jimmy

[GilkyBear]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

Incest is NEVER cool folks

Exception: West Virginia

Originally Posted by andy7jem

Now.....with all that fur Chewie must have had problems with cr@p getting matted in it after going for a dump!!! I reckon the big guy must have whiffed a bit!!!!

C3PO was tasked with combing it out.

You kill me Andy

[Passion_and_Warfare]

Originally Posted by voodoo_child

+1