The 'Collectible' trend

**GilkyBear** · #1 08-02-2009, 11:28 PM

Just an observation. Something I have been noticing. When a guitar company (Ibanez for example) simply make an awesome guitar in limited numbers, they seem to become collectible without trying. I'm talking about the swirls, the 90ths, the chromeboys, etc. But when they specifically make one to BE collectible, they fail. I'm thinking of the hideous SWTA JSs, the Jem 20th, Black Dog. I wonder why that is. Do we rebel against the fact that they are trying to tell us what is collectible? I don't know, but the 'bay is absolutely littered with so-called 'collectible' Ibbys.

Homebake · #2 08-02-2009, 11:43 PM

maybe because they're always so damn expensive people treat them as objects to auction for money than wanting to own them more as collectibles.

Rich · #3 08-02-2009, 11:51 PM

I think you missed the fact that they have been doing "collectible" issues for a long time. All JS3, 4, and 5's were touted as being "Limited Editions". You can go back much further to the Brownburst Skrugs and Wiers in the 70's. If you're referring to the glutted market right now, even the Y2K's fell into a serious dead zone for a few years, only to make a strong comeback. We'll only know what succeeds and doesn't in 10 years, or even in the case of the MC's, it was near 15 years before they became seriously sought [and thus paid] after, alot of that increased value attributed to the DNA rise.

But you are right that the market is glutted right now.The sluggish economy and the targeted pricing set by the factory probably have more to do with it than the models themselves. Then again, I could be wrong

**GilkyBear** · #4 08-03-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

even in the case of the MC's, it was near 15 years before they became seriously sought [and thus paid] after

But that's my point. They weren't made to be 'collectible', just limited editions of awesome guitars. It wasn't until 15 years later that they became 'collectible'. Now they are trying to cash in by making guitars specifically to be collectible as they are being made. My point is that the manufacturer doesn't get to decide what we will consider 'collectible'. I'm sure the poor market and price point have something to do with it as well though.

Rich · #5 08-03-2009, 12:47 AM

The point is they have always done this. The only thing different today is the price point

**GilkyBear** · #6 08-03-2009, 01:03 AM

Well, basically, exactly. The point is, we, the buyers, decided which guitars would be collectible by which ones we wanted and were willing to pay big bucks for. There are plenty of very rare limited editions and just plain rare guitars that didn't do well and are not collectible.

Now they are basically trying to get 'collectible' prices for any 'limited edition' they decide to pump out simply because it's a limited edition. And it just ain't happening.

Rich · #7 08-03-2009, 01:05 AM

But the only difference between now and 25 years ago is the price, so I'm just not following your argument.

**GilkyBear** · #8 08-03-2009, 01:07 AM

I'm agreeing with you 100%, they are trying to get collectible price for limited edition guitars. They are trying to fast forward the 15 years it takes a limited edition to become a collectible (or 5 or 6 years in the case of the DNA, but regardless).

Fredjo · #9 08-03-2009, 08:44 AM

The only collectible I'd consider buying if I had the money is gb30th but I don't

robbiano · #10 08-03-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilkyBear

I'm agreeing with you 100%, they are trying to get collectible price for limited edition guitars. They are trying to fast forward the 15 years it takes a limited edition to become a collectible (or 5 or 6 years in the case of the DNA, but regardless).

Interesting. Cannot decide where to draw the line between what is a (let's be honest)cynical marketing exercise to force a model into instant collectable status and one which will go on to become one naturally. A few givens; the guitar must be a quality instrument, nice on the eye and should be endorsed by a great musician.

Ultimately, the best bit is that it's guys like us who will really determine what becomes truely collectible and the marketing boys would love to know how this is determined. I also feel that economic conditions have little impact in the long term about price. Short term for sure - just look at what recent stable conditions and easy credit have done (butchered my chances for a UVMC a the moment) and i don't think the pricing of recent limited editions is right. Over time though it's just got to be down to the right instrument.

mike570 · #11 08-03-2009, 09:33 AM

I think Gilky has a good point. The market (us!) really determines what's collectible. We set the market price in the end. An LNG, adjusted for inflation and such, was priced much less back in 1987 than what they fetch now. Sure, they only produced 777 of them, but fate could have played out differently and all 777 could have sat unsold and be worthless now. (Hypothetically speaking of course! Please no one hyperventilate!

)
The market, you guys that love that guitar, decided it would be worth a lot of money today.
Flash forward to 2009. A PGM Fireman is pretty cool, but it certainly is targeted to a specific group (likely collectors) with a low production run and an extremely high price. I don't think a soft economy will keep these from being bought. A guy like me is going to be priced out of a Fireman in a good economy or a bad one. I think the people who CAN afford one can still buy one in a bad economy. Really, it will again be the market that determines if $6,000 is the right price!

robbiano · #12 08-03-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike570

I don't think a soft economy will keep these from being bought. A guy like me is going to be priced out of a Fireman in a good economy or a bad one. I think the people who CAN afford one can still buy one in a bad economy. Really, it will again be the market that determines if $6,000 is the right price!

Yeah, i think there's some truth to that. Must not forget that sometimes though a short term fixation will still skew things temporarily - we've all seen this on so called classic cars for example. 'Sometimes the value of your investment may fall also' ;-)

ironheadtom · #13 08-03-2009, 09:57 AM

But GB, did they really fail ? Or did a manufacturer get to sell some overpriced guitars due to their "collectible" label. Not only is the overall economy dying, but computer sites like ****, craigslist, etc., are killing sales of new items. I picked up an Onkyo 100 watt receiver for $5 the other day, works perfect. Why buy a new one? Manufacturers are desperately trying new ways to move stuff just to stay alive. (When I say new, just new to some because the concept has been around forever.) Why do nascar stock cars constantly change paint schemes? A new collectible can be produced each time . The manufacturers made big bucks on these, but most are worthless right now. Tom

mike570 · #14 08-03-2009, 10:09 AM

I think you never can truly tell what will hit. You just have to use your best judgment in terms of what will be collectible; the same as anyone really. I kind of feel bad for all the folks who bought an RG20th solely as a collectible. I honestly never think it will be "collectible", at least not in terms of an LNG, or an LP Goldtop, or a 50's Fender. It's just a great reissue. Time will tell if I'm wrong.
I think Fireman will hold it's value. I'm not sure if it will go up considering it's so high to begin with. Being such a unique and cool guitar I think it's chances are pretty good.

**GilkyBear** · #15 08-03-2009, 11:52 AM

I don't know who is getting screwed, but there are sure a lot of them on the bay and elsewhere. Could be people who bought them to flip them, too bad for them. Could be dealers stuck with them, haven't tracked it that far. I just buy guitars I want and ask myself if they will at least hold their value, that's my only litmus test. I'm not trying to make money, just not lose it.