Wow - Didn't Think Chrysler Was In Such Bad Shape

[jemaholic]

Here's a quote from today-

Things were so bad last year that a single Toyota model, the Camry/Solara midsize car, outsold the entire fleet of Chrysler LLC's passenger cars.

Wow. Good thing I drive Fords cause it looks like Chrysler won't be around much longer.

~j

[jay ratkowski]

For a long time the F-150 outsold a LOT of car companies. However, I think there is plenty of good reasons the Fed has been hesitant to give bailout money to Chrysler.

[Robstar]

Thats very interesting and a little sad. But if you think about it when was the last Chrysler announced a model tha made you say, man i really want a Chrysler!
The over 40 crowd still remembers them but anyone below that age forget about it.
The way the financial world is headed we will be lucky to have two american car companies in north america.
Down here in Houston even the oil refineries are filling chapter 11, 16,000 jobs cut worlwide next few months.
Now, if big oil can't make it than who can?

[Lefty Robb]

Originally Posted by Robstar

But if you think about it when was the last Chrysler announced a model tha made you say, man i really want a Chrysler!

I always thought you needed a AARP card to buy Chrysler..

[jb4674]

I have a friend who swears by them and won't buy anything else. IMO, any american car is a piece of junk.

On a side note, while I was getting ready to go to work this morning, Matt Lauer from the today show was in Michigan doing a report on the Chevy Volt and it's so funny to hear these GM execs talk about that car and act as if the car is going to be the car everyone wants....... What a crock.

Jimmy

[jim777]

Chrysler got jobbed around over the last few years as sort of a stepchild of Mercedes as well, and dropped when Mercedes couldn't 'fix' it. It's been an odd few years for Chrysler, but I did see quite a few 300s sold when they came out.

[Clonetool]

Chrysler should buy the production rights for the LeCar. They are very similar to the Mini Cooper in style and performance.

[DEADTUNES666]

Originally Posted by jb4674

IMO, any american car is a piece of junk.

Kind of like their guitars...

[jay ratkowski]

Originally Posted by Robstar

if you think about it when was the last Chrysler announced a model tha made you say, man i really want a Chrysler!

The Charger re-release was supposed to be that car. But instead of making it a somewhat affordable, super-cool sports car that they could sell in low volume at high profit... they turned it into something that was fleet-friendly. Then the Challenger came out and it ends up being like when Ford did the last T-Bird; completely out of the price range for the people who want it.

Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666

Kind of like their guitars...

That's a funny statement considering the vast majority of the best quality guitars in the world are made in the US.

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by Clonetool

Chrysler should buy the production rights for the LeCar. They are very similar to the Mini Cooper in style and performance.

the Renault 5 (LeCar) has been out of production since 1996, it's successor has been the Renault Clio.

And, as Renault owns Nissan, the current Clio's platform is used for the Nissan Micra which isn't sold in the USA. There is a sporty Micra, but it comes nowhere close to the Clio Sport, which has 200hp, similar to the Cooper S.

If there were a market for such a car in the USA, Renault would offer it themselves, either as Clio or Micra. Since there isn't any market for something like that, I can't really see such a small car saving Chrysler. In fact as a part of Mercedes-Benz, they would've had access to the similarly sized MB A-class platform. Neither MB nor Chrysler saw any market for it in the USA.



Chrysler has effectively been a dead man walking since 1979, MB pulled it's life-support, nothing for Cerberus but to close the coffin and sell off some organs.

I seriously doubt any big players are interested in the remains of Chrysler, unless it's for free. Ford can't find any buyers for Volvo either and GM has'yet to try to sell any of their companies, but may be forced to as well.

Note that Peugeot/Citroën got all of Chrysler's European operations for free in 1978.

[Clonetool]

Hey the Renault Clio is a decent looking car. If it can read my horoscope for 1.99 a minute I'd be all over it.

[bammbamm]

Originally Posted by jb4674

...any american car is a piece of junk.

On a side note, while I was getting ready to go to work this morning, Matt Lauer from the today show was in Michigan doing a report on the Chevy Volt and it's so funny to hear these GM execs talk about that car and act as if the car is going to be the car everyone wants....... What a crock.

Jimmy

Sadly, I have to agree, U.S. cars are turds. Clearly we have the ability to manufacture a great car, Honda has some major plants here in the U.S., as do other foreign companies, so as labor goes, we can do the work, it's the shortsighted companies that won't design a car for our market that competes globally with a Honda, Nissan, etc.

I drive an Acura, prior to that a Honda Accord, before that I had a couple Eagle Talons, Mazda RX-7, and my last GM car, a '79 K-5 Blazer, which was a huge POS, but I wanted a POS.

My Wife's truck is a GMC Jimmy, F*** Me, what a POS!!!
I have had to repair, replace all the steering and suspension components by 70,000 miles.
Some heavy duty truck. Meanwhile, my Accord ran 135k before needing any major work. (105K for the timing belt), the exhaust was rock solid, the motor was excellent, the trans was flawed in its design, and that is what failed at 135k.

GM, Ford, Dodge/ Chrysler all seem to ascribe to the same formula, buy the cheapest parts to build the US cars and give themselves raises for being so clever.

When I was in Germany in the early 90's I was thinking how simple and great the idea of the door or mirror-mounted turning indicators was. It didn't appear on a U.S. car for another 8-10 years.

Watching shows like Top Gear doesn't help my perspective, I only loathe the U.S. companies even more, especially after they started pan-handling for a government bailout.
Sorry, I know they indirectly employ millions, but I say let them fail. I think a better, more nimble and streamlined company will come along and usurp the former big 3's market share.

It's what we need, a proverbial Spaceship One in the auto industry to turn things around.

The GM volt 'concept' I've heard right now is running on a golf cart motor and a 36 volt battery system. Prior to that turd being polished and groomed for release, Toyota has had a vehicle on the streets that outperforms the volt more than 3:1.

In my opinion, they (the big 3) are a large part of the overall state of America.

[Hikey Mikey]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

. . .


Chrysler has effectively been a dead man walking since 1979, MB pulled it's life-support, nothing for Cerberus but to close the coffin and sell off some organs.

. . .

I agree with much of your post but that above is exaggerated. Chrysler invented the minivan, there were no similar vehicles before they built it. Also, Chrysler is responsible to a large degree for reviving the convertible. From 1976 to 1982, no American manufacturer produced a drop-top, and Chrysler brought it back into fashion.

(at least in the US, that's how it went. Don't know about European autos in the 80s.)

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by Hikey Mikey

I agree with much of your post but that above is exaggerated. Chrysler invented the minivan, there were no similar vehicles before they built it. Also, Chrysler is responsible to a large degree for reviving the convertible.

well there were similar vehicles before the Chrysler minivan and during its development there were plenty of other minvan concept-cars. Very few companies were interested to put something similar into production.

The Chrysler minivan's development had started already in the early 70s, quickly begot a sister project in Europe (at the UK design office), which through some strange deals became the Renault Espace.

At that point other large European manufacturers had scoffed the idea; thought there would be no market, initial sales of both the Chrysler and Renault minivans proved the critics right (btw no coincidence that both companies were effectively STATE-owned)

After the slow start it became successful in creating a new (niche) market. Same for the Renault Espace in Europe (albeit lagging ~4yrs)

But you have to be careful, both cars did very little for their respective companies' bottom line. For the Espace it was simply a state sponsored attempt to keep the Matra factory open. These were completely new vehicles, with large development and marketing costs and slow acceptance.

When competitors started to arrive, they shared engineering with true vans - commercial vehicles - benefitting both types.

From 1976 to 1982, no American manufacturer produced a drop-top, and Chrysler brought it back into fashion.

(at least in the US, that's how it went. Don't know about European autos in the 80s.)

Again, probably a gutsy marketing call to do that, but questionable from a profitability point of view. You're probably referring to the '83 LeBaron?

In Europe a number of compact and subcompact cars were available with some kind of drop top (not allways full convertibles) There were also sporty roadsters; light ones like the Alfa Spyder and heavy ones like the Mercedes SL. In the market even the light roadsters would already be sitting above a typical family sedan, such as the Chrysler LeBaron.

Indeed no European mid-size sedan was available as a convertible (Saab 900cabrio came in '86, Audi Cabrio '91!)

The reason for this isn't straightforward, but the Italians were traditionally quite weak in this segment, preferring roadsters. In France the last example of a mid-size convertible was the Peugeot 504 (69-74) and they would switch to compact convertibles after that.

In Germany they didn't exist either, BMW was too small to afford one, same for Audi. Mercedes didn't actually build a mid-size sedan until the '82 MB190, they introduced a convertible based upon the larger W124 E-class in 91.

To give you a feel how much of a niche this really is, only 33,000 W124 cabriolets were built, on a total W124 production of 2million.

For the Peugeot 504 it's even worse: 8,000 convertibles on a total of 3.7million (20,000 coupés) , no wonder its successor (the 505) wasn't even avaialbe as a coupé and later on neither the 406coupé nor 407coupé came as a cabriolet.

Even though it basically held a US monopoly, the Chrysler LeBaron conv. only got to about 50k on a total of 3.5million K-cars. The K-car might've saved Chrysler, but the convertible didn't do much. By ca.1990 they were again in financial trouble, only to be saved temporarily by the LH (which was coincidentally a Renault derived platform)

So in succession we have:

• Omni/Horizon (Simca development from France/UK)
  K-car (layout heavily influenced by above)
  PL (Neon, strong influence of ca1990 Europeans such as the Citroen ZX/Peugeot 306)
  LH (Renault 25 based, via Eagle Premier)
  LX (Mercedes W210 based)
  GS (=Mitsubishi platform)

This shows you that in four consecutive decades Chrysler didn't have enough cash to start proper developments and because they based them upon older external platforms, there was very little room for improvements. So dead-man-walking was an exaggeration, but not by much.

[Hikey Mikey]

Oh. Okay.