Do they play too loud?

[Myst and rain]

Howdy,

IbanezGirl posted this the other day, regarding a G3 show she went to.

Originally Posted by IbanezGirl

Now onto the bad points. (These are biggies!)
These don't detract from the guys playing abilities or what they had to play with on the night........BUT, there were major issues from the audiences viewpoint and took away what could have been an overall excellent night.

The volume level at the Horden was far too loud, to the point of it being uncomfortable for the listener. And yes i know it's a rock concert but there's a difference between loudness with a great mix that's pleasing to the ear, and loudness that isn't mixed well that it almost makes you want to walk out of a concert because it's painful and takes away some of the enjoyment of being there. All the guitars were far to loud, the bass sounded far to trebley and lacked any bottom end, the only time i really heard the bass drum was in a quite passages. It really sounded like a mish mash of instruments clashing with one another at seriously high harsh levels.. I'm not sure if the sound engineer had a chance to do a sound check in the afternoon, but from my perspective it certainly didn't sound like it.

I honestly believe whoever picked the Horden Pavilion as the venue made a HUGE mistake. The acoustics in there are absolute ****e and didn't seem to suit this concert at all. If this had of been done at somewhere like the Entertainment Centre, it would have suited this show and would have been much more enjoyable from a sound point of view.

My friend who had also paid $110 for their ticket, left after only 20 mins of JP's playing and never returned because of the issues above.
And before others chime in and say it's only my opinion, in between the change over sets people would go out for drinks or whatever, and i heard quite alot of people complaining mostly about the loudness level.

I will say, for me the $110 paid was worth it from the standpoint of seeing Joe, Steve and John for the first time. From a sound point of view it certainly wasn't worth the money......And for the record, i'll never attend another rock concert at The Horden Pavilion.

I really hope that the remaining states have much better venues and better sound mixes and enjoy the shows from every perspective.

I to-ta-lly know where she's coming from. I went to several concerts in the past, and the volume level was always just frightening. I'd stand there, thinking my eardrums would burst. That's not my idea of having a good time. You can't enjoy the music when it's so loud. Most of the time, I would be guessing at which point in the song the performers were. That just sucks. You pay all that money, travel halfway across the country and have to wait for hours before they get on stage. And then when they finally do start playing, you can't hear them properly. When I see those people in the live DVDs, standing there, relaxed, apparently hearing and enjoying every note, I'm puzzled. I think to myself 'Why aren't all of these people running out of the venue?'.

So what do all of you think? Do they play too loud?

Myst

[S-man]

I have to agree to a degree. Though, it needs to be loud enough to hear at the back of the venue. For me things start to sound distorted, like running a mild distortion pedal in front of Everything. I do find that after being exposed to the higher vloumes for several minutes that things even out a little. There are volumes that are so loud that the distortion sound never dissappates.

Jamming loud enough to match the un-mic'd levels of a Drumkit is plenty loud enough for me.

So I guess my answer is yes, I'm not sure? Good question.

I know I find it annoying when visiting a music playing friend that insist on showing me his new playing at 5 million db.

[EL-CeeDee]

Best vai concert I ever attended had a really nice volume level... just so loud that it "filled" the ear and then some,... great mix!

And then there were DT concerts (JP cuts diamond while playing his chainsaw), symphony X (imagine a POD at 12 thourgh a small transistor radio in the bathroom) and ZPZ,.... We got up well in front, the show started and my ears actually hurt !! I never experienced it before. Needless to say we moved to way back in the venue, where most of the ppl had accumulated and left just a wee bit early.

Really, please, lower levels and create a better mix! It's about the music!

[Myst and rain]

+1, people. It's strange to me to hear live DVDs. The sound is so good, while if you were to have attended that same show, all you would have heard is a frightening noise. I like local club gigs better.

Myst

[T.B.A.]

Yep, although G3 was prob'ly the most acceptable in a long time!

[S-man]

I'm thinking that's because they run everything back to a mixing board and record eachinstrument on seperate tracks. After they have the tracks recorded they mix it all down and refine the recorded sound. Additionally, recorded sound Never sounds like it does Live. If you've every recorded your live setup, mic'd guitar, you know what I mean. You just can't duplicate a Live performance. If the mix and the volume levels are decent there is nothing like it.

Personally, I like it best when you can jam with un mic'd guitars, bass, kybds,etc, un-mic'd drums and the vocals mixed to an appropriate level.

So yeah, I geuss I like a properly mixed club setup better myself.

[IbanezGirl]

It really does comes down to the venue and how good the sound engineer is on the night.

A few years ago, i saw ACDC at a great venue (The Entertainment Centre) in Sydney, and it was a fantastic night. The acca dacca boys were LOUD but the acoustics in that venue were great and so was their mixing guy. It was one of the sweetest mixes i'd ever heard. There was no harshness on the ears at all, it was very very smooth, with all the instruments levels mixed great. Even Brian Johnson's vocals were tolerable.
I came away from that concert with the adrenaline fully pumped, happy and talked about that show for days after.

With the G3 concert, there were quite alot of people sitting outside on the concrete listening to the show, and the security guys were going around offering them free ear plugs to go back inside, but most refused.
The reason i know this, my friend was one of those people sitting outside the venue. This is not how a concert should be. You should never come away from a show feeling totally drained and relieved that it's over.

The really sad thing about a concert being too loud in a venue that really isn't suited for those volume levels, and isn't mixed properly to compensate for the venue, it reflects badly on the artists (which it shouldn't, but does) and does make people stop and think twice on whether they would go to see that person/band again.

There is nothing wrong with a loud concert, as long as it's in the right venue and mixed properly. Myst, i guess the people you saw on those DVDs who were enjoying themselves, had the best of both worlds ( great mix and venue), otherwise it wouldn't have been recorded.

[jemplayer55]

Originally Posted by S-man

For me things start to sound distorted, like running a mild distortion pedal in front of Everything. I do find that after being exposed to the higher vloumes for several minutes that things even out a little. There are volumes that are so loud that the distortion sound never dissappates.

This is commonly referred to a hearing damage..... High SPL over an extended period will surely leave you with a case of tinnitus and/or sound fatigue at the least. Wait till you get 50 and your ears "ring" constantly!

[Lefty Robb]

Originally Posted by EL-CeeDee

Best vai concert I ever attended had a really nice volume level... just so loud that it "filled" the ear and then some,... great mix!

And then there were DT concerts (JP cuts diamond while playing his chanisaw), symphony X (imagine a POD at 12 thourgh a small transistor radio in the bathroom) and ZPZ,.... We got up well in front, the show started and my ears actually hurt !! I never experienced it before. Needless to say we moved to way back in the venue, where most of the ppl had accumulated and left just a wee bit early.

Really, please, lower levels and create a better mix! It's about the music!

Symphony X was awesome when I saw them, I couldn't hear for 3 days after it. Bands and venues can't afford Sound Engineers and they use the same exact gear for every venue so yes, 1 show will be great, and 1 show really loud and horrible due to the venue size and stage design from place to place, its the nature of the beast, the bigger, the better in most cases.

[kennydoe]

I saw the first two G3 tours and i remember Joe being unbearably loud, but not the others.

[RCB]

I rarely go to concerts anymore because of this. I dont know what the sound engineer (or the artist) has in mind.

I went to see G3 (Vai, Satriani, Frip) when I was in Mexico and it was just unbearable. It sound incredibly loud and incredibly bad.

I didnt enjoy it at all.

This happened in 2/3 (or more) of the concerts (big ones at least) I atended.

It's just stupid.

[Randy Rhoads]

Everyone when they play in Mexico play at 12 super loud.... I always carry ear plugs and cotton just in case...2 months ago in the G3 I bought the iupper level setas first row like 35 meter away and it was so much better.... but they played way too loud

[BozTheK]

I was at G3 last week, I didn't think they were too loud... but I wouldn't want it any louder.

[nightfiend14]

Originally Posted by jemplayer55

This is commonly referred to a hearing damage..... High SPL over an extended period will surely leave you with a case of tinnitus and/or sound fatigue at the least. Wait till you get 50 and your ears "ring" constantly!

or when you're 23 and they have been ringing as long as you can possibly recall. I can't wait to know what it's going to sound like at 50.

[crevis]

Usually I'd say the louder the better but in G3s case, I was in one of the quietest parts of the venue and those squeels that vai and satch love so much can be a bit harsh on the ears. G3 was still actually the quietest concert ive been to and those squeels still really hurt my ears.