steve vai vs. paul gilbert

[Metalbucker]

Paul Gilbert Easily! Cause Not ONLY Is He A Superb Educator(Check out Any of His Instructional Videos!) But He Has More of A "Metal" Shred Agression in his overall Playing Than Vai.

Don't get me wrong, I Loved Vai when he had that Red Charvel Strat with the Maple Fretboard when he had that "Duel" with Actor Ralph Macchio on that "Crossroads" movie from 1986 I think, Definitely More of A "Metal, or Neo Classical" Steve Vai Then!

Also that Song "Hina', from the David Lee Roth album/Cd "Skyscraper" is a Really Excellent Steve Vai Cut, that Is an Interesting "Van-Halenized" Sounding Track!

But I Think Nevermore's JEFF LOOMIS would "KILL" either Gilbert or Vai on Guitar!

Especially" In The Rhythm Guitar "Balls" Area! Where Especially "Vai", Has "Weak" Rhythm Patterns, Not So Much Gilbert, Yeah, Gilbert Definitely Has More "Metal-Ball-sack" when it Comes to Rhythm Guitar!

At Least when you Listen To Bands and players like Akira Takasaki from Japanese Metallers "Loudness", you get the WHOLE Package!, both Super Tough METAL Rhythm Patterns, That Are Sick Crazy Technical, "Almost" Speed Metal EVH approach" to Playing Guitar!,
that Leaves your Head "Spinning" as A Guitarist thinking "How'd He Do that?, F*CK!!, that Rhythm Shreds!!, Etc,

The same when Listening to King Diamonds Andy La Roque, or Even Yngwie, has Some Very Tight & Technical, Very METAL,
Rhythm Progressions! With "Spooky" Minor & Diminished Chords, Outlining A Much BETTER Influence to be Pondering Rather Than
"FALSE-METAL" Players Such as Gilbert & Vai!!

"METAL UP", Broseph!!

[RADICAL RICK]

It looks like all of the players mentioned have left some kind of mark,and there maybe more....See we all have different attributes....Regards 2 all......

[jemaholic]

I like the Shania choice from 5 years ago back at the beginning of this thread.

[Metalbucker]

Originally Posted by red5

Who is this Ralph guy? He must be very good then if Mr. Vai, who I consider as a divine entity of guitar, gets him to play all the hard parts! And why have I never heard of him?

They're Talking About Actor Ralph Macchio from the 1986 Movie "Crossroads" in where theres a cool "Scene" in the Movie Where the Character Played by Ralph Macchio Meets Up with The "Devil" on Guitar, Played by Steve Vai,

Who Accepts A Guitar "Duel", Played By A Young And Much More Metal Sounding Steve Vai! In Actuality, All of Actor Ralph Macchios Guitar Parts were Performed by Guitarist "Ry Cooder".

[Magical Muffin]

Originally Posted by RedTiger

"Un-head-wrappable" is a fine line. You go to far and...wow, cheese flavored gummy bears. Yes, those guys you mentioned probably do go further into the un-head-wrappable category, but yeah...cheese flavored gummy bears.

Great! But not everyone wants to eat those. You can take this stuff to extremes to the point where you have the most pedantic, sweepy pick-every-note stuff to the point of it being ridiculous -- some guy playing "Flight of the Bumble Bee" at 360 BMP. You can take it to the point where you're playing a 9 string baritone guitar and the guitar officially becomes...a drum. The rhythm instruments have now become percussion instruments.

Its a slippery slope. No one can really say you've gone "too far", because its all subjective, but then again, you have to acknowledge in some way that you're probably past some sort of perfectly reasonable limit when people are calling it "garbage" when you're standing on stage doing nothing but farting on your guitar while screaming at the top of your lungs, or you're guitar literally sounds like a pissed-off bee in a jar -- even if its a badge of pride for you.

Steve Vai is unfathomable...to a point. But trust me...he is quite unfathomable to a great many people. Go read the thread on thegearpage forum and watch people comment on the live "Where the Wild Things Are" performance and you'll see just how unfathomable he can be, even to other musicians. Again, his sense of sticking to his vision is what I like best about him. That and those 777 jems.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'd personally say the only guys who 'take it to far' would be the pornogrind/more extreme grindcore 'bands', where it's less about pushing any boundaries forward and more about shocking people as well as one's own personal enjoyment of making such a thing. And I personally doubt there will be anything much more than an 8 string, as anything more then that would just be a bass with a pile of guitar strings thrown on (E.G. this: )


The vast majority of bands don't and won't tune lower than drop-A, which is simply the drop tuning a 7 string. I personally would never go more than a half step below that. You can't really tell what note they're playing at that point anyways, so the situation is moot; no one will notice any extra 'heavyness' you get from tuning a guitar below a bass and cranking the gain.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is a physical limit in which you can't really get faster (Can you imagine anyone physically playing something twice the speed as Shawn Lane?) or heavier. Just as some painters/artists might do things incomprehensible to the average man or even other artists, the same thing applies to music. I personally find Sunn O)))'s stuff pretty atmospheric and nice on occasion, and many people are repulsed at the thought of distorted/screaming vocals. Different strokes for different folks.

The Attitude song more or less has a 4/4 rhythm underneath the guitar, and you can count 2/2 as 4/4 (But yes I realize technically speaking it is not theoretically the same).

[AxeHappy]

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

Show me a Steve Vai song that isn't in 4/4 and I'll show you a very suprised smiley face.

Freak Show Excess uses:
4/4, 7/16, 6/16, 5/16, 4/16 and 2/16...

[Metalbucker]

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

I'd personally say the only guys who 'take it to far' would be the pornogrind/more extreme grindcore 'bands', where it's less about pushing any boundaries forward and more about shocking people as well as one's own personal enjoyment of making such a thing. And I personally doubt there will be anything much more than an 8 string, as anything more then that would just be a bass with a pile of guitar strings thrown on (E.G. this: )


The vast majority of bands don't and won't tune lower than drop-A, which is simply the drop tuning a 7 string. I personally would never go more than a half step below that. You can't really tell what note they're playing at that point anyways, so the situation is moot; no one will notice any extra 'heavyness' you get from tuning a guitar below a bass and cranking the gain.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is a physical limit in which you can't really get faster (Can you imagine anyone physically playing something twice the speed as Shawn Lane?) or heavier. Just as some painters/artists might do things incomprehensible to the average man or even other artists, the same thing applies to music. I personally find Sunn O)))'s stuff pretty atmospheric and nice on occasion, and many people are repulsed at the thought of distorted/screaming vocals. Different strokes for different folks.

The Attitude song more or less has a 4/4 rhythm underneath the guitar, and you can count 2/2 as 4/4 (But yes I realize technically speaking it is not theoretically the same).

So TRUE Dude! When I Left L.A. to go to Roberto-Venn Luthier School in Phoenix, Az in August 1986 when the COOLEST Thing In Sunset Strip Live Music, & "LOCAL MUSICIAN PRIDE" in The L.A.area was "SLAYER", of Course!, and "OTHER" L.A. Bands Such as :Van Halen /Ratt/Armored Saint/Dark Angel/Possessed and at the Other End of the spectrum, A "Super Glam Faggy""Earlier" Image Version of Guns N' Roses in Thier "Appetite for Destruction" Era!,

AND, at least "Hundreds" of Seemingly OTHER COOL}, L.A. Hard Rock, and
"So Called" Metal Bands , Some Good!, and Some NOT so Good!

And, when I Moved Back in Late 1997 And went Down to "The Sunset Strip" in Hollywood to Check out What was Goin on' in L.A. Music Scene & Live Bands at Clubs Such As the "Whisky A Go-Go", the Troubador, Etc

It was Shocking, how "Dumbed-Down" Everything had Become in Most L.A. Guitarist' Sound and Most Bands Locally!

The BEST ONE However was a Band Called "Willow Wisp", and even though these guys are Really Great Musicians & Songwriters, they Always Seemed A True Underground Sensation!

But getting back to what I meant by the "Other" Bands being "Dumbed-Down" , Meaning MANY, of These Dudes/Bands Were Down-Tuned SO LOW, (And Probably using Weak 009 to 042 Strings!?) and using "0" Mids, and Under-Powered Tube Amps with Super Muddy Tone, that
The Resulting Live Sound was an Incomprehensible Sub-Sonic Mess! And Its Been Pretty Much the same since the (Late '90's) Unfortunately.

[Magical Muffin]

A 42 gauge is barely big enough for tuning to e, so I can't imagine what that would sound like, other than monster farts. It should be in the 8 set, with an 8-46 light top heavy bottom option. The only not-custom set out there that has the right idea is the zakk wylde set (10-60), but there's no relatively tensioned 9 or 8 sets for that. And I just realized how far off the original topic I've gone

Originally Posted by AxeHappy

Freak Show Excess uses:
4/4, 7/16, 6/16, 5/16, 4/16 and 2/16...

Well I guess you deserve it...



Lol :P

[exutus]

Paul Gilbert kills Steve Vai big time.

He even brings him back from the dead to kill him twice, and in the afterlife.

[lwchafin]

yes! or no. ummmm...well....uhhh. Hard to say.

[RedTiger]

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

HOLY CRAP!

I want one.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my long-winded crap, but I was exaggerating with my examples. Basically, all I meant is that you can keep playing one-up in "out there" category until you cease to make any sort of sense.

EDIT: Damn it! Why didn't I think of Freakshow Excess?

[Magical Muffin]

Originally Posted by RedTiger

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my long-winded crap, but I was exaggerating with my examples. Basically, all I meant is that you can keep playing one-up in "out there" category until you cease to make any sort of sense.

No prob. I've trained myself over the years to be able to properly read and make sense of massive walls of text, and your post was a single sentence compared to some I've read

I am surprised as to why Steve Vai wouldn't have more crazy time signature songs than he seems to have. I mean, he worked with Frank Zappa for how long?

[RedTiger]

Possibly because he has said himself that he has a "rock sensibility". If you're talking basics, It doesn't get any more rock than 4/4 time IMO. He already skirts that sensibility, maybe he believes that 4/4 time is at its core.

[DEADTUNES666]

Anyone can take odd timings and make them whacked out and unbelievable...How many can do that consistently in "common time"? Dave Brubeck was good at using odd time signatures, and yet making them somewhat accessible to his listeners...Elvis Presley, Bob Dylan, and the Beatles made more impact over that time period though. 9/8, 13/8 and 5/4 are all great but not essential...IMHO

I liken time signatures to cars...My buddy back in the day got a brand new Firebird as a graduation present and thought he was the king banana, and yet I still scored more times with my 1969 POS Volkswagen Bug. It's not always the package as much as what you do with it...

[RedTiger]

As far as times go, its always an option that someone doesn't want to write stuff in odd signatures, even if they could. Like I said, musical sensibilities.