steve vai vs. paul gilbert - Page 9

RADICAL RICK · #**121** 03-15-2010, 06:36 AM

Hmmmm...this is a tough one tigez,as i have tried to emulate both players and have to some degree....Gilbert is so fluid and angelic in his playing and Vai, well is just Vai (Jack Butler)....aka x-roads..... I have done all the racer-x stuff into the nites,skit skatz,scarifieds...etc(all with harmonizers as at the time not too many were into this stuff)...and i have done the goin crazies,yankee rose,just like paradise, ladies nites and many others,and i would have to say that both these players stand alone....Gilbert is the shredder and master, and Vai is the shredder,genius,musical encyclopedia,and guitar god,and he is also satan on the guitar and his looks too...So i think VAI has to be the holy grail of players,even though any artist thaT GETS an endorsement has definitely done sumthing worthy...We are all unique in what we can play or do,as we would never even come close to emulating each other no matter what calibre we are,we all have sumthing different to offer as artist and players who paint those notes.....Radical Rick....

Crazy_Guitar · #**122** 03-15-2010, 08:26 AM

Steve Gilbert:

RedTiger · #**123** 03-15-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibateur

Should have stopped there.

Are you trying to say I'm long winded, or that I don't know what I'm talking about, or both?

Actually, no...I take it back. I can comment intelligently about it. And succincctly too.

It has nothing to do with chops. Steve Vai has always had a vision about where he wanted to take his music. His career has been almost nothing but exploring that vision. He often cites courage to stick to your vision as one of the most important things for a musician to do. I can really relate to that, and not just to music.

DEADTUNES666 · #**124** 03-15-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedTiger

It has nothing to do with chops. Steve Vai has always had a vision about where he wanted to take his music. His career has been almost nothing but exploring that vision. He often cites courage to stick to your vision as one of the most important things for a musician to do. I can really relate to that, and not just to music.

Also, working with Frank Zappa, and really getting to know and learn from his genius, puts you on a different level than most other guys...I'm pretty sure Vai can throw G-C-D together and make a song, but not everyone else has his freaky spark...

RADICAL RICK · #**125** 03-15-2010, 11:24 AM

Hey guyz,didnt also mean to come across blunt or sarcastik,many sorries if i did,i was just relating a comparison which i have seen by playing both styles of artists,like to me for feel E.V.H just rules(beat it solo)man that kills ma evry time, simple but hard to get aT THE RIGHT feels/tones especially the bends timing etc.....But on the other hand i also love the dudes from cacophony (Friedman and Becker)i tried to get a cacoph band a couple of years ago,but man i packed it up very quickly....lol.......Oh and then there was Dimebag,,,stil luv his ****....did a premier Pantera covers band,and now i just leave it at that.(basically came saw and kicked sum ass maybe).......Sorry for going off tap but it really is inkredible to compare such geniuses,so i guess i do feel the same about who is better...bloody hipocryte i am.....lol...Best Regards all............Radical...........

RedTiger · #**126** 03-15-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666

Also, working with Frank Zappa, and really getting to know and learn from his genius, puts you on a different level than most other guys...I'm pretty sure Vai can throw G-C-D together and make a song, but not everyone else has his freaky spark...

True. And working with Frank Zappa wasn't just about learning, it was apparently really, really demanding. From the way Mr. Vai describes it, it required a great deal of musical knowledge and a lot of thinking on your feat.

Ibateur · #**127** 03-15-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedTiger

Are you trying to say I'm long winded, or that I don't know what I'm talking about, or both?

No man, not long winded at all.

You yourself said that you didn't know enough of Paul Gilbert to comment, and yet you did.

Don't think that's fair.

RedTiger · #**128** 03-15-2010, 05:58 PM

Good. I'd rather be clueless than long winded.

I've tried to on a relatively shallow level to find more info about Paul Gilbert's background, but I haven't seen much. Contrast this to Vai where I feel like I know his life story. I'll admit that might be a little bit due to bias.

Magical Muffin · #**129** 03-15-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666

Not that it's a bad thing,but it seems some people might not be able to wrap their heads around what Vai does, and simply go for the more pop oriented guy

I'm going to assume that you at least partially meant me when you said that, considering you posted right after me.

I'd like to quickly point out that bands such as PsyOpus, Cannibal Corpse, Psycroptic or Meshuggah take big dumps on anything any shredder does (Barring Dream Theatre, maybe MAB (Probably not)), and fill up the furthest extreme point of 'un-head wrapp-able'. Show me a Steve Vai song that isn't in 4/4 and I'll show you a very suprised smiley face. It is a simple situation me of disliking his writing ability and the end result of his songs. I feel the same way about Satriani.

And I will second the EVH thing pointed out by Rick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yos0R-9iP8E
That guy plays the solo perfectly note for note but I still think it isn't all that great, and there's no real feel, etc etc.

mike570 · #**130** 03-15-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

Show me a Steve Vai song that isn't in 4/4 and I'll show you a very suprised smiley face.

"The Attitude Song" has a 7/16 time signature.

RedTiger · #**131** 03-15-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

Show me a Steve Vai song that isn't in 4/4 and I'll show you a very suprised smiley face. It is a simple situation me of disliking his writing ability and the end result of his songs. I feel the same way about Satriani.

"For the Love of God" - 2/2 time.

"Un-head-wrappable" is a fine line. You go to far and...wow, cheese flavored gummy bears. Yes, those guys you mentioned probably do go further into the un-head-wrappable category, but yeah...cheese flavored gummy bears.

Great! But not everyone wants to eat those. You can take this stuff to extremes to the point where you have the most pedantic, sweepy pick-every-note stuff to the point of it being ridiculous -- some guy playing "Flight of the Bumble Bee" at 360 BMP. You can take it to the point where you're playing a 9 string baritone guitar and the guitar officially becomes...a drum. The rhythm instruments have now become percussion instruments.

Its a slippery slope. No one can really say you've gone "too far", because its all subjective, but then again, you have to acknowledge in some way that you're probably past some sort of perfectly reasonable limit when people are calling it "garbage" when you're standing on stage doing nothing but farting on your guitar while screaming at the top of your lungs, or you're guitar literally sounds like a pissed-off bee in a jar -- even if its a badge of pride for you.

Steve Vai is unfathomable...to a point. But trust me...he is quite unfathomable to a great many people. Go read the thread on thegearpage forum and watch people comment on the live "Where the Wild Things Are" performance and you'll see just how unfathomable he can be, even to other musicians. Again, his sense of sticking to his vision is what I like best about him. That and those 777 jems.

This is why I also really, really like Joe Satriani. He seems to have a very cool rock sensibility that you can trace directly back to his roots playing classic rock and his understanding of jazz song structure. Its something that he's never lost in some quest to try and impress everyone and push some artificial limit no one except guitar players gives a crap about. On the contrary, he's actually gone back and rediscovered that and re-incorporated that as his playing has matured.

Different strokes for different folks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

And I will second the EVH thing pointed out by Rick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yos0R-9iP8E
That guy plays the solo perfectly note for note but I still think it isn't all that great, and there's no real feel, etc etc.

Agreed. That is an example of how not to play the guitar. That's an example of how to connect the dots and play something "correctly", with a heavy side of "I'm bored, when do I get paid for doing this video?". Its also a good example of why I always thought those instructional videos were total horse****.

mike570 · #**132** 03-15-2010, 10:02 PM

Not to drag this on a side note, but I have to give props to Dave Mustaine and Megadeth! Dave is the benchmark of metal... and Megadeth still uses standard tuning!

RedTiger · #**133** 03-15-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike570

Not to drag this on a side note, but I have to give props to Dave Mustaine and Megadeth! Dave is the benchmark of metal... and Megadeth still uses standard tuning!

Props all the way! I just got over my own little "half-step down" problem recently. It makes things so much more interesting when you just use standard tuning. Get a baritone, the regular 6 string guitar is a tenor!

waylay00 · #**134** 03-15-2010, 10:15 PM

Gilbert

DEADTUNES666 · #**135** 03-15-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

I'm going to assume that you at least partially meant me when you said that, considering you posted right after me.

I absolutely was not singling anyone out. Just an observation on my part in general...His Flex-able stuff was just out there in an area few others dare, and has since skirted his own ethereal realm of which only he frequents. It's not being weird and misunderstood as much as it's innovative. Innovation is all about timing. Sending a man to the moon now is no big deal, 40 years ago it was quite a major leap and very innovative...

Paul writes in a very easily understood way, which is very palpable, and comfortably digestible. "Scarified" has that neo classical thing happening and is just freaky awesome, but not in the same innovative way as "Little Green Men". A much more accessible song sure... But Steve on the other hand is so innovative in his approach that i feel he's the man!

Bear in mind all of these are opinions and really are only valid to me, as are anyone elses feelings...Sorry if you thought I was being snotty. I certainly meant nothing by it...