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Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)

231K views 599 replies 237 participants last post by  Jem777DesertDiamond 
#1 · (Edited)
On the eve of the JEM20th announcement, it has become necessary to start a single, organized, contained thread where Ibanez customers of past and present can convey their dissatisfaction of the JEM/UV line to Steve Vai (and indirectly to Ibanez). Some of you are misguided in that you think Ibanez has any control or say over the JEM line, aside from pricing and distribution. They do not.

Here is an estimated breakdown of who controls the Ibanez JEM line. Sure it's slightly exaggerated, but the point it makes should be loud and clear.

99.4% control - Steve Vai
00.5% control - Ibanez (ie. pricing and distribution)
00.1% control - laws of physics & machinery
00.0% control - Ibanez customers and Steve Vai fans

If you wish to voice your negative opinion and displeasure with Steve Vai's signature model JEM guitars please do it here and stop littering topics with repitituous rants and raves. Thanks... glen

PS - DO NOT INFILTRATE THIS THREAD WITH JEM20 CRITIQUES AND COMMENTS. THIS IS FOR CONCERNS AND SUGGESTIONS ONLY.
 
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#99 ·
Okay guys, settle down.

I hadn't planned on posting in this thread, even though I've been reading it. But I didn't really see the point of trying to change your opinion about things you don't like. And that's fine. Everyone likes different things. It's what makes us unique as human beings.

Like you have a strong opinion of things, so did Jeroen, and because it's not the same as yours, doesn't mean he's not entitled to it. He's not stating any official line. Jeroen is the tech admin at Vai.com, therefore that's why he put that after his name.

But like you're taking your dislike of the Jem20 personally, you're also choosing to take his message too personally as well, and that's just silly.

I've read some posts here though, that go beyond simply stating one’s opinion and are pretty disrespectful toward Steve too. I'm sure Steve can handle it. He has a thick skin, but don't be so outraged when someone counters your opinion, and please don't make out that you're so offended when someone tells you off.

Now that that's out of the way, let me state my opinion, and a few facts.

My opinion is: I'd love to see tons of different Jems available too. Wood grain ones, clear coats and sunburst ones, mahogany ones, swirly ones and flat color ones. But just because I think it would be a great idea to do that, doesn't mean that its good business sense. People get choice fatigue for one thing, but also, it's not necessarily profitable to have too many variants to choose from either. Many people talk about Ibanez and Steve’s choices as if they are completely random and made without any reference to anything. But remember that there are reasons for everything. And if something isn’t the way you want it, there’s probably a good reason why.

Over the life of the Jem there have been many different configurations - more than many other signature guitars I can think of. Steve has always designed the guitars - and sometimes they have been visually groundbreaking, and sometimes they have been more subdued. There really has been something for everyone (unless you’re J. Mascis who said he wouldn’t be seen dead holding a Jem.)

I've heard people say that the swirl guitars look like a transvestite's puke, and then I've heard people say that they're beautiful. I've heard other people say that the original Jem neon colors were horrendous and tasteless. I've heard people say the floral pattern Jem was "***". But yet many of us think they are instruments of beauty. Different strokes for different folks.

I get the impression that many people posting in this thread are somehow personally affronted when Steve and Ibanez come out with a guitar they don't like, or that they didn't ask for... but how would it be possible to cater to so many voices? I've seen people mock up digital “dream Jems” here that I wouldn't buy in a million years... but so what? Somewhere along the line they're sure to put something together that I like. To waste my time complaining about it on a message board and crying about it loudly as if it were some sort of human rights violation is a bit extreme though. Some of you have been wringing your hands about Ibanez's 2007 lineup as if your lives depended about it. While I appreciate the enthusiasm, I think you're taking it all a bit too seriously... After all, these are pieces or wire and wood (and sometimes lucite). There are things in this world far more worthy of your outrage.

I'm seeing people complain that Steve doesn't play the Jem guitars that Ibanez puts out, but this is just false. The BRMR is a staple item in Steve's current touring guitar lineup... Steve has played the blue Jems, the DBK, the 90th, the DNA and even the 10th live. But he also has prototypes that he’s played too, and some of them don’t even make commercial sense to mass produce – even in limited numbers.

I hear what you're saying about the sustainer. I think it would be great to release a Jem with on in it too, however as the sustainer is made by Fernandes, this would prove to be a political issue with Ibanez. Sure, they could create their own sustainer, or use Sustainiac, but that's not the type of Sustainer Steve likes - and then that would be something people would complain about too. I know some people would like to have LEDs in the fretboard like Steve’s BRMR – but remember that there is only one BRMR with LEDS in it, and that was a prototype Steve had built a long time ago – and the LEDs were aftermarket additions not done by Ibanez. Anyone can have it done themselves. The cost for Ibanez to mass produce the BRMR with LEDs probably can’t be done without the price being deemed too high for the consumer.

I also hear what you’re saying about the Edge Pro. Most of Steve’s guitars have Edge loPros in them, although he has played some guitars with Edge Pros in them on stage. I tend to prefer the Edge LoPro myself, but I have Edge Pro guitars too, and they work just fine for me. I ca only assume that Ibanez feel that the Edge Pro is an advancement in their trem design, and so only have those produced now – hence they appear on all new guitars. The original 7VWHs that Steve had delivered to him had original Edges on them, but the models from each subsequent year have the latest trem on them.

I read people above saying Steve should go back to "the roots" and release another DBK Jem, yet I'm also reading people complain about the new black Jem.

As someone else pointed out above, people complain about the 555 saying it's cheap, yet the complain about the Jem7 Prestige models as being too expensive. But put these guitars in contrast with a PRS, or a Les Paul, they really aren't that expensive. I personally don't find the price of Jems too high. They are both functional tools and luxury items. I see the anniversaries as being collectible guitars - and if someone chooses to buy it and put it under the bed, or play the **** out of it is up to them – but they shouldn’t be criticized for either.

If I bought a Jem20, or even a Jem10, or DNA or UV swirl, I would do so because it's a thing of beauty I would cherish. They aren’t only instruments to me, but works of art. So the Jem20 was conceived as something unique, very limited, and commemorative. It’s production is expensive and complicated. Sure – it’s easy to pass it off as a piece of plastic – but if it’s a piece of plastic to you, then save your money for a different guitar.

And though some of you took exception to Jeroen’s comment that (paraphrased) said “if you don’t like it don’t worry – there are other guitars that you’ll like better;” this is a simple pragmatic approach. It’s not a “**** you” - it’s just an acknowledgement that you can’t please everybody. And while one of you said it doesn’t sound like the “words of the man” – it’s realistic to think that Steve would probably shrug his shoulders and agree – that you can’t please everybody. He can only hope that the next Jems that come out might appeal to people – but there’s sure to be a camp that hates those too.

Like I said above, not every Jem has thrilled me to the core, but there have been plenty that I love – so they are the ones I go after. If this year’s lineup doesn’t appeal to me, I’m sure that perhaps next year there will be some that will.

Now that I’ve stated my opinion, let me state a few facts:

Regarding the design of the Jem: Steve oversees every aspect of the Jem, and things usually go through countless revisions before they are approved. I have had hands-on experience working with Steve on a project for Ibanez, so I can state this without hesitation or doubt.

The Jem is designed around his idiosyncrasies – both as a player and as an artist. There has been lots of experimentation on Steve’s part with different Jem configurations – but he likes the sound of the way the guitar is now – hence you haven’t seen a mahogany Jem, or a Jem with a completely scalloped board etc. etc. released to the public (yet anyway....) A “blues Jem” like someone suggested, or any other genre-specific Jem wouldn’t be staying true to the type of music Steve makes – so what would be the point? That’s what the RG is for. The Jem is a guitar designed to help Steve achieve the sounds he’s looking for. And like any professional player, he occasionally modifies his gear – but don’t expect all of those mods to carry over into the guitars released to the public. I doubt many people would find a guitar with tape over the bottom of the neck pickup very appealing.

There are many other speculative comments that are being thrown around as fact - and I can understand Jeroen feeling the need to point out that just because you might think something and say it, doesn't suddenly make it reality. I’ll have to address those as I see them – it’s getting too late right now for me to sift through the thread – though I will say that I’m encouraged to read posts from Demiurge and Davester1234 in particular who seem to have a pretty good understanding of how the world works and the practicalities involved.

The bottom line is this: Even if you don’t like a certain Jem, I doubt distributors will have a tough time moving them off the shelves. For everyone who hates a certain type of guitar, there are another 5 with hot cash in their hands who want to exchange it for the same instrument.. In relation to the Jem 20, it’s a highly limited run, and geared towards the collector – while the VWH and the new BK are geared towards the player. There is no sign whatsoever that a special issue acrylic guitar represents the future of the Jem or Ibanez.

Phew – now my fingers are tired.

Thanks for listening, and by no means think this is a message discouraging you from expressing your taste or opinion. I’m only representing another opinion, but one that is based in the knowledge of proximity, practicality and insight into how things work in the world of Steve Vai.

Mikey
Vai.com
 
#101 ·
My opinion is: I'd love to see tons of different Jems available too. Wood grain ones, clear coats and sunburst ones, mahogany ones, swirly ones and flat color ones. But just because I think it would be a great idea to do that, doesn't mean that its good business sense. People get choice fatigue for one thing, but also, it's not necessarily profitable to have too many variants to choose from either. Many people talk about Ibanez and Steve's choices as if they are completely random and made without any reference to anything. But remember that there are reasons for everything. And if something isn't the way you want it, there's probably a good reason why.
Oh well, there are always the custom shops. :wink:

But why was the floral JEM discontinued? I think that, even though it had been around for a long time, it was still very popular and selled very well? :)

Myst
 
#105 ·
I guess there is no safety here. No disrespect against Mr. Vai or Mikey or anyone but it seemed to me like this was the one centralized location where people were supposed to go to complain... and all I see are people, however closely associated with Steve or not, coming in here and getting pissed off at how ignorant we all are for being dissapointed. Dissapointed, not pissed or emotionally disabled

Its pretty simple for me. if I had the money you would see in my possession two new jems. I would not necessarilly play an acryllic guitar live or even for practice but it would make probably the most rare and interesting lamps I have ever owned.

I imagine it as a scenario where people are told everyone who wants soda go left everyone who wants milk go right and then people are berrated for liking one thing or another.

I'll be honest, in ten years I have only ever bought jems for myself. I know that I have started to consider other possibilities for my next guitar and whether or not that is because the jem is overall less satisfying than it used to be or that I am interested in a different sound now than I was before is hard to say. I'll make that decision once the options are played after all. I didn't even know you could buy a jem when I got my first one I saw one, played it and had not played anything like it before.
 
#114 ·
I guess there is no safety here. No disrespect against Mr. Vai or Mikey or anyone but it seemed to me like this was the one centralized location where people were supposed to go to complain...
bingo.

i'll be deleting inappropriate comments from here as the thread started out poorly and is getting better :)

too many threads are getting wrecked with complaints and misdirected bashing... glen
 
#111 ·
Case in point.

With all due respect, Timi, what do you want?

You want Steve to haul 2 of every type ever made on tour?
Or for recording?
He used many diffrent jems and UV's for each record, so perhaps that was not what you ment. But what?

I've seen Steve play the 7VWH, 77FP, 7VSBL, 7DBK, 77BRMR, EP7, EP9 personally over the last two years. Plus I know he used the DNA, several UV's and several others for various recordings and gigs along these. What else do you want?

Cashing in? If Ibanez would be a source of income for Steve, what is wrong with that? Isn't he alowed to make money? Is it extortion? Bribery? Robbery? Taking advantage of a business monopoly? What? Would you give it away for free if you get in the same position?

I really don't mean to piss on you, I truely want to understant why you feel the way you feel because I truely and honestly just don't get it.
 
#109 ·
When I sign with vai.om under a post (something which I hardly ever do here anyway), it's not to say that I'm giving out any official word, as that is certainly not my function, but it is to show that I speak with a certain insight in the Vai world. It's not something I'm overly vocal about, because it feels awkward, it limits me in many ways to freely speak up my mind because it gets mistaken for official statements and/or ego tripping and I consider my relation to Vai.com as something private mostly anyway.

In this case it was another lousy attempt to point out to some that they were off base on several fronts.

Steve's publicist however I am not.

But I am opinionated. As you can see, the content of my message is identical to that of Mikey in essence, only I post with the subtlety and personality of a concrete wall. (Which incidently is one of the reasons I'll never actually be anyone's publicist, because I lack the PR skills that others have.;))

But that was by no means a diss towards those who don't like the new Jem and I'm sorry to those who took it as such.

I happen to think that it's impossible for Ibanez to build a jem, or a guitar, or even a line of guitars that will get a thumbs up from everybody, simply because tastes differ. And just like in music, I don't believe anyone's taste to be superior over someone else.

However, I do think it's realistic to say that if you don't like it, then by all means don't buy it or get something that you do like. You're not doing anyone a favor, least of all yourself, by forking over a huge amount of dough towards something you don't like. I'm perhaps just too practical about that, but it is how I feel.

What I took as not appropriate and that was what prompted me to post this, is that a few people are talking about Steve's business as a matter of fact. I think it's a bit rude anyway, but also a bit irresponsible because it may create expectations or ideas that aren't necessarily true. A pity it would be if those expectations end up to be the source of your disappointment.

I'm also thinking that the balance is a little bit off center in the way some people voice their disappointment over various results.
I certainly don't have an issue with the complaining, but the way some people complain is what worries me, it doesn't really strike me as helpful or productive - rather the opposite.

But then again, that's just my opinion - again.
 
#115 ·
Mikey & Jeroenn..... thanks for giving us some insight regarding both the JEM and the man. I agree that no matter what you do, you'll never please all. We get the idea about Steve's' personal choices and respect that. Even mulling over prototypes to choose one that fits his desires and yet has mass player/collector appeal.

True..... the 20th may have increased production cost based on esthetics, but for the price (as much as a original DNA is going for) shouldn't a consumer at least have some expectation of "player innovation" too?

Is it too unreasonable to expect even the slightest playability improvement such as a Buzz Feiten tuning system on a $5000.00 or $6000.00 "collector" item? Something I'm sure Steve utilizes and would agree with.

Anyway, I do like the look of the 20th...... I'm just disappointed in it's price. Collector appeal or not. Agreed, both Steve and Ibanez are in the business of making music and guitars for both the "love" and to make a profitable living. But lets be reasonable..... the corporate philosophy in today's world is create a upward spiral in pricing & profit margin while cutting design and manufacture cost. Something Ibanez has been addressing rather well lately.

BTW.... Jeroenn, the content of your post was fine with me. You have a opinion and should voice it no matter what. But to open your post with a degrading term such as "Peeps" just is unacceptable especially since you chose to sign off as representing Vai.com. Granted you may not handle Steve's personal affairs you do represent Steve when you're in a public forum and choose to make that known.

No one expects Steve or Mikey to come on here and smooth things over. And this should include you. It's not their responsibility to do "spin" on your behalf and you owe the members of Jemsite as well as Steve, Mikey and everyone at Vai.com an apology. But that's just my take..... ;)
 
#118 ·
BTW.... Jeroenn, the content of your post was fine with me. You have a opinion and should voice it no matter what. But to open your post with a degrading term such as "Peeps" just is unacceptable especially since you chose to sign off as representing Vai.com.
Ok, now I really feel like a tool.

I inherrited the word 'Peeps' from one of my former managing directors who would address his staff in official and non official emails starting with peeps or gents (short for people and gentlemen), as in 'hey peeps, meeting in on hour in room 3e' type of comments. He was Dutch, like me obviously.
It stuck with me.

I never knew it was degrading. I use it a lot actually.
I just thought it was identical to 'folks' or 'guys' .

Sorry! I indeed profoundly apologize if that was offensive to you! Rest assured that the word is banned from my vocabulary as of right now and it was most defenitly not my intention to address anyone in a degrading manner!

J
 
#116 · (Edited)
Steve and Ibanez are cashing in, which is to be expected (and fine) since its bussines common practice.

Ibanez is no longer what it used to be, because the world has changed, and because Ibanez position in the market has changed. Guitar playing has changed.

We are not at the dawn of shredding. Propper guitar playing and techniques are common language today. Floyd Rose equipped superstrats have been around for about 25 years, and Ibanez has a consolidated leader position in that market.

Steve Vai has found his ceiling a long time ago, and he is as popular and succesfull as a virtuoso guitar player can be.

More than 20 years ago, that was hardly the case. Ibanez was struggling to make a name for themselves, facing competition from countless brands of which only Jackson survived, but is in no position to compete against Ibanez.

Back in the day Ibanez had to be innovative, and they had to offer good value for the money; and they were. They came up with the edge, the S, the R/JS, the P, the PII, the Jem/RG, the DiMArzio/IBZ pups, the sharktooth inlays, the cosmo black, the vine, the pyramids, the neon coloured pups, the wizard neck, the extended routing for the edge, etc, etc, etc, etc.

They signed endorser deals with the right guys (in fact they signed in a ton of endorsers).

The important thing for us (consumers) was that they were both innovative/quality guitars, and that they offered good value for the money. They would ve never released an inferior guitar like the 555, because the RG 550 was made to fill that need (If you have any doubt about this, check the 777DY/SK and the RG550DY/RFR). Ibanez couldnt afford to pass mediocre guitar as a signature model back then. The same applies for the other "signatures" MIK or worst signature models.

Trying to be in their shoes, I believe that Ibanez (and also Steve) were actually excited as how things were turning out for them. 20 years later is just bussines as usual.

They succeded, won, and they ve been cashing in for the last 10 years.

The 10th was a real tribute to product that made Ibanez what it is today.

It is not true that you cant make a guitar that pleases a lot of people. The 10th did, and the DNA was also very nice and the only thing that brought massive complains from the public was that they were cashing in the recent collector market thing that started to happen on swirls.

The 20th idea could ve been done much better. There is no excuse for the missmatch between the body and the neck/fretboard aside from cost saving. And with the obscene list price, that is just unacceptable.

Just my 2 cents
 
#121 ·
I LOVE the new JEM 20th, and I want one. I also love my JEM 7VWH, JEM 77 BRMR and JEM 10th. THANKS to Steve, Ibanez, and everyone involved in continuing to make exciting versions of this fantastic looking, playing and sounding guitar. Please keep up the great work. JEMs are a constant source of inspiration for me to play guitar.
 
#123 ·
Aside from the fact there is only choice between two JEMs at the moment, and the absence of the FP :cry:, I think the JEM line is cool the way it is. :)

Personally, I don't think all the gimmicks, such as the Buzz Feiten system and the sustainer have to be added. I mean, if you want those things you can buy 'em seperatly. What does it matter who puts it in there, you know? :wink:

P.S. How about a shiny emerald green JEM, with gold hardware and pearloid pickguard and vine in the neck? :eek:

Myst
 
#124 ·
The Ibanez Webpage has been updated... I see their specs on the twentieth and I believe with these new never before heard pickups I would have to hear one before making a judgement.
they are called dimarzio trans jem neck pickups and appear to have been made exclusively to accentuate the tone of this guitar.
maybe everyone already knew that but just throwing it out there.
 
#125 · (Edited)
I havent read this whole thread.............but just to throw my own useless opinion in the mix. I have no gripe about Ibanez or Mr. Vai...........except that it would be nice for him to stop by and help me build my studio :wink:
Ok..........I just lied! I do have a complaint. I think Ive already said it repeatedly in many post. Im really dissapointed in the lack of choices in the 7 string department. I love Korn........but I hate the signature K7. I love Universes, but I really loathe the only one available now. It reminds of something Hank Williams JR would play. (not that theres anything wrong with that) Just not my taste. And sense my taste is the only taste that matters to me.....its important to me. (I just re-read that line to make sure it made sense) :lol: Ive always been a die-hard Ibanez consumer........and ever since the 7's hit the market, Ive never gone back to 6. But untill Ibanez rekindles the 7 string market..........Im thankfull for all the decent custom builders out there.........offering what Ibanez isnt.
In short!?...........................Blah blah blah blah.............

Laterz!..............................~Ranz~
 
#126 ·
Wouldn't this thread be better suited to, and put to better use on, Ibanez's production models? The JEM is Vai's guitar, built to Vai's exact specifications. I SERIOUSLY doubt he's going to change his personal preferences because a few people on the internet don't approve.

Are there things I would change about the JEM, given the chance? Certainly. I don't like the pickups. I don't like the finishes. I don't like bolt-on necks. But it's not the Tim Springmann signature model, is it?
 
#128 ·
Of Course, I am Joe Nobody, but my 2 cents worth on this topic is this....
when i think of Steve Vai, i tend to think of a certain swirled 7 string guitar....my biggest let down is the lack of any evolution as of late in the Universe Department. Maybe a different color even, anything.....

I know 7 strings aren't disgustingly marketable at the moment, but I imagine a good amount of players would enjoy something new in the Universe Camp.
 
#134 ·
Sheeesh this is getting brutal. Why don't people just have the guitar they hoped for custom made for themself? Not criticizing or saying it's wrong to give your sweet, kind, humble opinion about the Jem 20th...just wondering.

I was hoping for the Red Lace Jem released, but Steve and Ibanez did not go forth with that. So, I am thinking of having a "Red Lace" replica made in the future.

Paul
 
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