Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)

[Myst and rain]

Originally Posted by Dee

You're missing the point here. It's not a thread to request a wider variety of models or a thread about the FP, it's about our dissatisfaction with the JEM 20th.

No, it's not. Just look at this quote from Glen.

Originally Posted by jemsite

If you wish to voice your negative opinion and displeasure with Steve Vai's signature model JEM guitars please do it here and stop littering topics with repitituous rants and raves. Thanks... glen

PS - DO NOT INFILTRATE THIS THREAD WITH JEM20 CRITIQUES AND COMMENTS. THIS IS FOR CONCERNS AND SUGGESTIONS ONLY.

Myst

[Dee]

Originally Posted by Myst and rain

No, it's not. Just look at this quote from Glen.

Myst

Bah! The thread title changed!

Originally Posted by Myst and rain

I still think a purple JEM with gold hardware would be pretty cool. With pyramids in the neck... Wow.

Myst

You are kidding, right? That sounds hideous. But anyway.

[RCB]

Steve and Ibanez are cashing in, which is to be expected (and fine) since its bussines common practice.

Ibanez is no longer what it used to be, because the world has changed, and because Ibanez position in the market has changed. Guitar playing has changed.

We are not at the dawn of shredding. Propper guitar playing and techniques are common language today. Floyd Rose equipped superstrats have been around for about 25 years, and Ibanez has a consolidated leader position in that market.

Steve Vai has found his ceiling a long time ago, and he is as popular and succesfull as a virtuoso guitar player can be.

More than 20 years ago, that was hardly the case. Ibanez was struggling to make a name for themselves, facing competition from countless brands of which only Jackson survived, but is in no position to compete against Ibanez.

Back in the day Ibanez had to be innovative, and they had to offer good value for the money; and they were. They came up with the edge, the S, the R/JS, the P, the PII, the Jem/RG, the DiMArzio/IBZ pups, the sharktooth inlays, the cosmo black, the vine, the pyramids, the neon coloured pups, the wizard neck, the extended routing for the edge, etc, etc, etc, etc.

They signed endorser deals with the right guys (in fact they signed in a ton of endorsers).

The important thing for us (consumers) was that they were both innovative/quality guitars, and that they offered good value for the money. They would ve never released an inferior guitar like the 555, because the RG 550 was made to fill that need (If you have any doubt about this, check the 777DY/SK and the RG550DY/RFR). Ibanez couldnt afford to pass mediocre guitar as a signature model back then. The same applies for the other "signatures" MIK or worst signature models.

Trying to be in their shoes, I believe that Ibanez (and also Steve) were actually excited as how things were turning out for them. 20 years later is just bussines as usual.

They succeded, won, and they ve been cashing in for the last 10 years.

The 10th was a real tribute to product that made Ibanez what it is today.

It is not true that you cant make a guitar that pleases a lot of people. The 10th did, and the DNA was also very nice and the only thing that brought massive complains from the public was that they were cashing in the recent collector market thing that started to happen on swirls.

The 20th idea could ve been done much better. There is no excuse for the missmatch between the body and the neck/fretboard aside from cost saving. And with the obscene list price, that is just unacceptable.

Just my 2 cents

[rickcard71]

I think I owe Steve and Ibanez an apology on the 20th. It is pretty cool even though I'm not crazy about the idea of a non-wood guitar. If I had the money, I would probably buy one.

[jemplayer55]

Well now I'm confused...... do I delete my post here on the JEM 20th and move my "long winded rant" there???

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by jemplayer55

Well now I'm confused...... do I delete my post here on the JEM 20th and move my "long winded rant" there???

leave the rant here (as it really serves no purpose in a JEM20 thread where people want to have legitimate conversation about the guitar).... glen

[knowbody]

For the first time in a long while they are making a color of jem that I would consider buying (black) I don't like white guitars... there are no red jems. no sunbursty wood tones that don't have a messed up mokey grip that looks like it was cut with by the new guy at the factory... and I'm sick of guitars that match the couches my mother owns. for ten years I have been an avid fan of the product line but have always held back waiting for all the right specs... as close as they have ever gotten I think may be this new black jem. but now they are far past the lo pros which is the only trem steve actually uses (I figure since the guy doesn't have to settle for crap he is probably playing the better trem) and I'm sure it will be basswood like every other jem I ever thought looked good enough to own. keeping in mind my opinions are my own and that black seems to be a despized color here on the threads... look, I realize steve is a flamboyant character. but there is a market of vai fans who are looking for a quality guitar that isn't pink or flowery or in the shape of a flame or made of platinum and engraved with alien hieroglyphics and I keep feeling like the longer I sit staring at the jem line the more I'm missing in the prestige line that doesn't make me look like the newb onstage who doesn't know how to spend two thousand dollars and make it count. My business has shifted. the best looking jems I have ever seen were handmade by the sponsors of this page and drawn in photoshop by the members of this page. and still I hold out hope. but for now, what I see... it is just too much darn money.

[jm1681]

While I don't play or own a Jem, my biggest gripe would easily be price as well. I've played several Jems throughout the years and they feel and sound great, but the tag is way too high for those of us who are still in the basement.

I'd like to think the 555 was the correct thought process to resolving this, but a poor implementation IMHO. I think the re-introduction of the 555 line is a good idea, so long as the faults of the original are improved upon. Then, those who can afford a 7V can buy themselves a 7V, and those who can't afford a 7V can still purchase a quality guitar in the image of a virtuoso.

[Davey]

Some great posts here.

My biggest annoyance with the whole thing is that WE AREN'T GETTING THE SAME GUITAR THAT STEVE PLAYS. Simple as. How can you have a signature model, have the balls to charge premium prices, and then not have all the mod-cons? Where are the sustainers? LEDs? Lo-Pro or Edge trems?

Great guitars in the grand scheme of things though, although this years introduction as left me a bit cold. I'm going on holiday next month the the money I'd saved for a new Jem, how many other people are doing a similar thing?

[AirGuitar]

Originally Posted by Ibanez249

Some great posts here.
Where are the sustainers??

I cant help think that the best 20th could have been an affordable Jem with a sustainer. Prehaps just a different colour, or pyramids instead of a vine or something.

But i always expected the 20th to be for the collectors market anyway .

[jm1681]

Originally Posted by Ibanez249

My biggest annoyance with the whole thing is that WE AREN'T GETTING THE SAME GUITAR THAT STEVE PLAYS...Where are the sustainers? LEDs? Lo-Pro or Edge trems?

This is a big gripe for me too, particularly with the tremolos.

Evo has an original Edge, the 7V (Which please correct me if I'm wrong, is supposed to be a "new" Evo) should have an original Edge, not whatever is the "boutique" trem that year.

The sustainer is a Fernandes thing so I can understand why it isn't found in a production model. The LEDs would be very cool, but would make an expensive guitar a VERY expensive guitar. Maybe offer them as factory custom shop options, but Ibanez doesn't have a custom shop

[Demiurge]

Imagine how hard it is for Steve Vai... recording albums, touring the world, writing material, and on top of that having to be responsible for placating the desires of his (I mean this in the best way) guitar-obsessed fans who expect him to put their expectations and wants before his personal tastes.

What if what he wants is an acrylic swirl JEM with LEDs and a black JEM with a vine? His fans may be disappointed by his decisions, but they're HIS shots to call based on what HE WANTS not what he thinks will sell or appeal to the masses the best.

Consider this, if Ibanez gives you a deal, saying they'll make a guitar to your specs and will release a production model with the same specs- what are you really going to think if your fans start complaining about lack of variety in your guitars? Every single feature of each line of Jems has been equally defended and criticized: (neon vs anti-neon, pickups, woods, swirls, budget models, etc.) and making absolutely everyone happy is impossible. The best Steve can do is let his music do the talking... oh, nevermind, people are hopelessly divided over that, too.

[Dee]

Again, and for the billionth time -- we need VARIETY so everyone can be happy!

Regarding the comment that Knowbody posted, black isn't a despised colour, on the right guitar it can look great, but we don't want it on every guitar in the range. Variety. Choice. Those are the key words here. Look at the JEM line up in the early 90's. You'd be crazy not to want at least one of them, there were so many available, as well as brightly coloured RG's, RG770DX (pure class), etc.

If you're making your guitar available to the public, you should consider what the people want, otherwise, just have them made for yourself. It works both ways, see. We pay his wages. The more variety, the more JEM's get sold, the more money Steve Vai earns.

[knowbody]

Originally Posted by Demiurge

What if what he wants is an acrylic swirl JEM with LEDs and a black JEM with a vine? His fans may be disappointed by his decisions, but they're HIS shots to call based on what HE WANTS not what he thinks will sell or appeal to the masses the best.

how many dna's does Vai own? how many tenth anniversary guitars? I'm willing to bet that Vai won't do too much with an acrylic guitar. I don't think selling five hundred plastic guitars at six thousand dollars each was completely what he thought needed to be done for the sake of the instrument... for the advancement of guitar as a form of his artistic expression.

[Demiurge]

Originally Posted by knowbody

how many dna's does Vai own? how many tenth anniversary guitars? I'm willing to bet that Vai won't do too much with an acrylic guitar. I don't think selling five hundred plastic guitars at six thousand dollars each was completely what he thought needed to be done for the sake of the instrument... for the advancement of guitar as a form of his artistic expression.

Okay, add to my list in my previous post that he's also held responsible "for the advancement of guitar as a form of his artistic expression." No regular models with sustainers (which he uses now), I'll give people that, but at least Ibz still puts out the UV (which he doesn't use much). If anybody else has any more creative ideas how to advance the electric guitar, by all means do it, but once again, don't saddle Steve Vai with YOUR expectations for the advancement of electric guitars.

Maybe he doesn't outright design models, maybe he only has time to approve them now, but if you want to think of it such, maybe him authorizing these high-priced collectibles is simply rendering unto Caesar (Ibanez) what is Caesar's (the desire to sell high-priced collectibles for a boatload of money a pop). Ibanez is a business and they do business with Steve.