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Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)

231K views 599 replies 237 participants last post by  Jem777DesertDiamond 
#1 · (Edited)
On the eve of the JEM20th announcement, it has become necessary to start a single, organized, contained thread where Ibanez customers of past and present can convey their dissatisfaction of the JEM/UV line to Steve Vai (and indirectly to Ibanez). Some of you are misguided in that you think Ibanez has any control or say over the JEM line, aside from pricing and distribution. They do not.

Here is an estimated breakdown of who controls the Ibanez JEM line. Sure it's slightly exaggerated, but the point it makes should be loud and clear.

99.4% control - Steve Vai
00.5% control - Ibanez (ie. pricing and distribution)
00.1% control - laws of physics & machinery
00.0% control - Ibanez customers and Steve Vai fans

If you wish to voice your negative opinion and displeasure with Steve Vai's signature model JEM guitars please do it here and stop littering topics with repitituous rants and raves. Thanks... glen

PS - DO NOT INFILTRATE THIS THREAD WITH JEM20 CRITIQUES AND COMMENTS. THIS IS FOR CONCERNS AND SUGGESTIONS ONLY.
 
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#135 ·
A custom would be the obvious choice, I agree, Paul. If you're looking to spend $5k on a guitar and you don't like the JEM 20th, go get one made to your own exact spec. If you're not looking to spend $5k, the JEM 20th is quite irrelevant, though I do understand that many people would have liked to have seen a less flashy guitar intended for playing and priced slightly more within reach.

As for gold this, gold that, gold blah... ewwww... guys, get some taste! Gold -- IMO -- 99% of the time looks terribly cheap and nasty (for some reason I think of Pat Butcher). For me, that's what ruined the VWH.
 
#136 ·
I have many rants about this, so here goes. :)

IIRC, one of Steve's major goals was to have Ibanez produce guitars he loves and make them available to the masses. He was proud to say that the guitars he plays are the same ones available to the masses, and that he could walk into any music store with a JEM and it would be the same as the ones he plays. He has authorized Ibanez to release one with a built-in sustainer, but not for the US buyer. Don't understand that one at all.

Sadly, that hasn't been true for many, many years.

JEMs. He's not faithful to the JEM line. His main squeeze, the JEM7VWH, is not stock either. He uses an Ibanez Edge trem on his, but that's not what comes on a new JEM7VWH. I'm sure he also still uses Ebony boards. Not for the new JEM owner, though.

UVs. Steve all but abandoned this line of guitars 13 years ago. He doesn't play a Universe on tour, and he rarely uses one on disc. Steve should release this line to someone who will actually represent it and use it.

my 2 cents.
 
#137 ·
I have many rants about this, so here goes. :)

IIRC, one of Steve's major goals was to have Ibanez produce guitars he loves and make them available to the masses. He was proud to say that the guitars he plays are the same ones available to the masses, and that he could walk into any music store with a JEM and it would be the same as the ones he plays. He has authorized Ibanez to release one with a built-in sustainer, but not for the US buyer. Don't understand that one at all.

Sadly, that hasn't been true for many, many years.

JEMs. He's not faithful to the JEM line. His main squeeze, the JEM7VWH, is not stock either. He uses an Ibanez Edge trem on his, but that's not what comes on a new JEM7VWH. I'm sure he also still uses Ebony boards. Not for the new JEM owner, though.

UVs. Steve all but abandoned this line of guitars 13 years ago. He doesn't play a Universe on tour, and he rarely uses one on disc. Steve should release this line to someone who will actually represent it and use it.

my 2 cents.
Wow - so many incorrect statements in one post. Where do people get this info from? This is my main frustration with this thread. It's not that people are expressing the things they don't like; they are just straight making stuff up like it's a fact.

There is no Jem available from Ibanez with a Sustainer installed. Any sustainers you see in Jems are aftermarket.

"He's not faithful to the Jem line" - HUH? Yes, EVO has a black edge trem on it, and black hardware, but EVO is almost 14 years old. EVO has black hardware on it so she's easy to tell apart from FLO when the guitar is in a rack on the side of a dark stage.

EVO has gone through many necks, and you can bet that she has a rosewood board on her right now. In fact, I think EVO has had a rosewood board more often than not.

Apart from that, Steve has played many off-the-shelf Jems and continues to do so. Much of the Orchestra shows in Holland were performed with stock Jems supplied to Steve by the Dutch distributor. Steve plays stock EP7 and EP9s.

"Steve abandoned the UVs" - total and utter rubbish. Steve continues to play them on his albums (including Real Illusions), but he doesn't bring them on tour. Why? Because if he brings one, he has to bring two, and that's a lot to carry when you're touring. Dave Weiner handles all 7-string duties in a live setting, so there's no point bringing them out.

The UV has remained the same since the late 90s, but so what? It sells steadily, but perhaps there isn't a market for a new model.

"He should release this line to someone who will actually represent it and use it" - What a silly thing to say. There are plenty of 7-string RGs. Steve likes the Universe how it currently is.

Mikey
vai.com
 
#138 ·
Mikey, give it up, there are few that actually know the score and most will spew incorrect 90% of the time. You WILL go stir crazy trying to correct it all, no matter how vallient the effort.

There are 2 stores in Japan that do in house Sustainer conversions on new VWH's using the same white sustainer that Steve uses. These are not factory except that the base VWH is a stock VWH. I believe they also do a BFM also, even though as Mikey has said, Steve doesn't even use it anymore.
 
#143 ·
Wasn't this suppose to be the Ibanez JEM & UV Enthusiast site?

Doesn't everyone have better things to do with there time then constantly tear down another mans art/the JEM line, Steve & Ibanez.
People expressing honest opinions is no bad thing. Steve chose to put his art into the public domain, therefore it's open to discussion. Besides, Steve has said himself that he wants to hear feedback from us, even the brutal stuff. I pasted the quote earlier in the thread.

I don't see it as tearing down anything, I see it as people voicing opinions on something they feel passionately about and don't want to see slip down the crapper.
 
#151 · (Edited)
Well I no longer wish to offer complaints but possible solutions to some of our concerns. I have the utmost respect to the fact that Steve dictates what and how the JEM/UV line is developed. However, is seems to me that with a little compromise and some serious discussion this could turn into a win/win for everybody.

Let's start with us the consumer..... let's face it Ibanez is in the business of making a profit from the manufacture of guitars and related equipment. They have a growing roster of musicians to please and maintain. I spent some time viewing all the pic's supplied by Rich from Ibanez Rules and was impressed with the amount of models and slight variations between some.

I saw new colors, player innovations, as well as variety in types of guitars ava. (6 string up to 8 string) and everything between hollow bodies to exotic solid bodied guitars not to mention player endorsed models. So it does look as though we the consumer are getting through to the "suits" controlling the dollars. I agree it would be nice to have a few extra "options" to some of the more popular lines, but lets face it this is a numbers game and also about endorsement deals and maintaining a roster of varied player demands.

Every 7 stringer who was influenced by Steve wants an update and options on the UV.... the deal is Steve has decided that utilizing 7 strings is best done by another band member (yep, giving that guy a job too) and now concentrates more on his six string guitars. Not a big deal to me..... besides Ibanez now has several endorsees who are into 7's. Most of these axes are based on the super strat configuration very similar to the UV. So asking Steve to "let go" of something he still holds dear (7 string instrument) is not something we should expect. Besides we don't know that Steve hasn't contemplated more color selections only to find it less of a priority in the course of making both corporate and personal decisions. So lets give him the opportunity to sort through things and who knows maybe Dave Weiner can start playing a UV model or Steve could let Dave make some suggestions regarding updates.

Now about our JEM's...... we've all asked for more colors to be released in any given year. Oh sure it's possible to do..... but look over the years at the colors that have been available to all of us. Maybe not in the current configuration, but heck I see more people whining about E/LP/EP bridges than I do color. Besides, It is Steves' line of guitars and whether he chooses to have one of every color in the rainbow produced in a single year or over 20 years we'll just have to deal with it and continue to support the aftermarket on painting our precious babies.

Now let's address the hardware issues..... here's where I have strong feelings. It would seem to me that both Steve and Ibanez could make some compromise here and at least offer two different hardware finish selections on say both the JEM7VWH and the latest addition the JEM7VBK. Either do it on split production runs or on a special order basis for a small premium..... yeah, I said more money! Now this could also go for fingerboard wood species as well as offering pyramid inlays also. It's my understanding and certainly not confirmed, but apparently Steve likes rosewood..... great, keep giving us that. But Jeez..... let ebony be an option! Heck the man himself used it for some time and some of his loyal fan/guitar playing customers want it back after owning their first ebony graced JEM. Besides it can only help to boost sales, profits, & royalties if that's the case.

It's been clarified that Steve no longer uses the Buzz Feiten system. Why, I don't know and it's not really important. But I do have some questions and suggestions regarding this. I here players swear by this all the time but never notice any of these guys with locking nuts like I see on a JEM. Maybe that's why Steve stopped using them, they don't come as a locking nut. This could have added back to the problem of maintaining tuning with heavy trem use. Whatever the issue, couldn't Ibanez get it's engineers to look at the theory behind this and apply it to a locking nut? Especially if it adds to tuning ease and tonal stability?

Now about the sustainer..... gosh, Ibanez has worked out deals with DiMarzio for pickups, Floyd Rose for trem's, why not at least approach Fernandez about an exclusive "partnership" regarding this little baby. Or better yet Maybe Steve could hook up with the guys at Sustainiac and design one to his specs to be offered exclusively through Ibanez for a year or so. Then open sales to the general public for Sustainiac to increase their sales figures. But everyone would have to remember what the goal was and not see $$ only!

Same deal with the LP vs EP bridge. Come on, offer it as a upgrade option or maybe Steve could just simply "update" all his babies to the E/P and kill all the speculation about why he still uses the L/P.

My guess is, it has to do with bodies and modifying them and what he cherishes about one particular guitar. It's kinda like expecting somebody who owns a 50's guitar to start routing away wood that certainly adds to it's tonal characteristics. Again.... sheer speculation, but what the hey, EJ used to insist on Duracell's (and may still) when he could have used an a/c adapter. :roll: But that's just a players choice.

Besides at some point Steve will run out of Low Pro bridges and will have to cross that bridge then! (no pun intended) I'm pretty sure I've seen a E/P equipped guitar in his hands though and it sure didn't hinder his performance. (like much could)

The other thing Ibanez could do is make the Lo Pro available through it's parts catalog and with better distribution through it's dealers. Heck, I've tried to get Ibanez parts and it was like trying to get "un-a-tanuim" on the black market! :lol: I ended up scoring from an individual who buys these instruments and molests them for their parts. Just look at the problems that could solve, making the correct parts available. I know, Ibanez isn't in the parts business. But adding an organised and dedicated resale division to what has to be a monstorus parts inventory wouldn't kill them either and may help enhance inventory level and quality control.

Anyway, all these are just thoughts. But with some dedication, patients, communication and compromise these issues could become a win/win deal.

Sorry for the long winded...... babble! ;)
 
#156 ·
You know, I'm almost looking forward now to NAMM being over, when the good folks at Ibanez return to not popping in anymore to see what the fans of the instruments themselves have to say. A few cared back in November, and they will still care in a month, but the rest will have moved back to their everyday...
 
#159 ·
Jeroenn.... there is a store in Japan that offers the JEM7VWH with a sustainer installed and has for quite awhile.

http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/shopping...1&page_cnt=12&order=1&state2=&start_index=156

Personally I would have added one to mine but the talent of the local guitar techs' is slim at best and when I talked to the "best" in my area he was reluctant because he'd never done one.

I surely didn't want to risk my only JEM to the hands of inexperience. Unfortunately most of us on here don't own several to experiment with.
 
#163 ·
Jeroenn, I think you're implying there wouldn't be a market for some of these "options"??? Yes??? I'm sure there was discussions regarding "market" on the JEM 20th regarding price and appeal.

Rest assured..... as has been stated in this thread, people will buy what is made available especially when it's a factory option. No different than say a car.
 
#166 ·
Jeroenn, I think you're implying there wouldn't be a market for some of these "options"??? Yes??? I'm sure there was discussions regarding "market" on the JEM 20th regarding price and appeal.

Rest assured..... as has been stated in this thread, people will buy what is made available especially when it's a factory option. No different than say a car.
I do think there is a certain market for certain options. I've got one sustainer and I've got backstops in all my jems.

I also think that there must be a reason why the models are the way they are.

Jeroen
 
#173 ·
Yes, Steve has final control over the design of the jem.

Changing the way Ibanez does business (making models available with options or cusomer ordered additions) doesn't seem to fall in that category, at least that is what I believe, and for that I believe I'm right if I do point to Ibanez. I don't think it's a strange thought.

J
 
#178 ·
if steve pressed ibanez for a sustainer, it certainly would happen.

checkmate.
I wouldn't doubt you at all, Glen. I firmly understand the first post in the thread and I believe that's most probably how it is.

Tak already addressed this.

to recap the custom shop has himself and 4 guys which are 24/7 dedicated to servicing ibanez endorsers. says it takes time and training to expand... very difficult to do.

BTW - i agree with him and i will state what he did NOT say... that a custom shop would be a cluster f*ck and disaster. Anyone following customer interaction with vendors here would smell trouble miles away... glen
Thank you for the clarification.
 
#177 ·
It's really nice and dandy that Jeroenn and Mikey take time from their schedules to come in here and at least give us something to chew on about what goes on with Steve with regards to the Jem. While I am glad to hear these guys express their opinions and give us a little insight, I am still wondering why no one with enough decision making capabilities from Ibanez has had the guts to come in here and interact with the majority of its customers. It's no secret that Jemsite is the biggest site that happens to be a place for the majority of Ibanez enthusiasts, collectors and players worldwide. Mikey, Jeroenn, if you guys are at NAMM, why don't you tell one of those Asian guys at the Ibanez booth to participate in this discussion? I'm sure everyone here would like to let them know a thing or two.

Jimmy:smile:
 
#182 ·
Oops, yeah, LEDs in the 20th. I forgot those. And I think I just read somewhere online that they were all sold too.

Sustainers, I know, I have one! They're really cool too. I have a Fernandes, but I seem to recall that you actually liked Sustaniac better? ;)

jb4674 said:
Mikey, Jeroenn, if you guys are at NAMM, why don't you tell one of those Asian guys at the Ibanez booth to participate in this discussion? I'm sure everyone here would like to let them know a thing or two.
I'm not at NAMM, sorry to say, but even if I were, I absolutely would not. Engaging in senseless bickering debates with Glen on an internet messageboard is about as far as I go.

J
 
#189 ·
I've not read the complete thread because it's 10 pages long and chances are if I do will probably end up arguing over something silly but here's my few suggestions for Steve and Ibanez.

1. Please bring out a grown up jem for those of us who a) are over 30 and b) can afford to buy a new jem tomorrow if there was a new jem we wanted.
Short of custom shop guitars Gretsch and PRS are the only brands of guitars I'd consider buying new.
This can be remedied by a jem that looks something like

or just look up Jackson PC1 to see what I'd call a grown up jem.

2. Please consider bringing out a solid colour jem that is NOT white, black, neon, pearl colour, mirror, gold, shiny or pimped out in any way, shape or form.
Imagine the VWH painted in candy apple with matching headstock without changing any of the features - just different colour (solid colour mind you) body and headstock.

3. Retire EVO to the studio and actually promote the new jem full time both on stage and when featured in magazines.
There are many of us here who already own a VWH and we're not just going to stroll up to the shop and buy a second one so if you want me to buy a jem - support it full time.

Last minute lesson.
For every long haired jem fan who works at a gas station and is putting 90% of his effort in his band and is still hoping to "make it" there are 50+ of us 9-5 people who play at home, jam with biddies and play covers for fun.
Don't forget us man, we are the people who can buy a new jem.

Second last minute lesson.
I saw Zappa plays Zappa 6 months ago and there was a guitar I really liked so I bought myself a similar guitar.
Unfortunately it was not a jem, not even an Ibanez........ but if you ever needed proof that I'm impressionable - here it is.

I went with hum in the bridge and cream rather than white but Fender got my money.
 
#190 ·
Just want to add that I really didn't mean to repeat myself 100 times how I can buy a jem and I'm sure many of you here can just get a jem as well.
What I ment was it'll be cool if there was a jem out that appealed to those of us who have completely outgrown the 80's.

It's 2007 after all.
 
#195 ·
I never look at it this way. For me it was never a problem to separate the JEM and RG from the 80's. And anyway, the 80's was actually a lot of fun, if I remember right. Do you not agree? Just because maybe you had a silly haircut for a while and wore spandex, is that the problem? Heh. I'm kidding. :) But honestly I think some good s*** happened back then. Anyway, to me, the JEM is quite timeless, as is the RG550.

How many people are saying "we've moved on since the Stratocaster, that was 1957!!"? I hope there's not too many. The Strat just... exists... and it shows no visible signs of disappearing anytime soon. It achieves a certain sound, the body shape is nice (there would, of course, be no JEM if it wasn't for the Strat), find the right one and it could play beautifully... and so on. Oh, and Jimi played one.

We have indeed moved on, but the product is no less desirable now. Guess that's why Fender sold out of the Eric Clapton's Blackie copies for $25,000 a pop. :rolleyes: The Strat was the first guitar I fell in love with at age 9 or something, and I still haven't owned one. I'd love to own a nice Strat.

I don't listen to much 80's music, btw, I certainly don't LOOK 80's, I no longer have hair down to my ass, etc., but I love the 777DY, LNG, SK, FP, and all the rest of those beauties that most would be scared to be seen dead with. I also love the neon RG's, they're a total classic. Just my opinion. There was always a couple of "conservative" or "grown-up" JEM's available anyway, such as the PBK. That was a timeless JEM which looks as good today as it ever did. Again, just my opinion, but I can't pick a fault with that guitar, and it certainly isn't embarrassing to be seen with.
 
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