Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere) - Page 7 - Jemsite
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  #91  
Old 01-17-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


Oh man. It's not a good idea to piss off the fans.
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  #92  
Old 01-17-2007, 11:18 PM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


It's all good. Group hug and all that stuff Katrina would be up for if she wasn't too busy studying
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  #93  
Old 01-17-2007, 11:24 PM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


the jem 20 sucks steve , the 10 was was great , it had class and was just really cool . the normal swirl is cool espeically the omc and gmc , so was the lng777.

get back to the roots man.

oh and you need another dbk like jem , simple but very much a japanese quality built jem .

oh and a less expensive fixed bridge would be cool , but i am not sure it would be a real jem then


bring back the jem77bfp ,or at least a maple fretboard jem.
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  #94  
Old 01-17-2007, 11:26 PM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


Quote:
I'll be visiting the chat room again and reading your thoughts on things. I am very interested is hearing your feedback, even the brutal stuff. It helps me to get a perspective on what you're feeling. I appreciate the honesty. I want to get to know you all better and I think the time is now.
It's impossible for me to express my thanks in words or even music to you all. When an artist feels support for his work, It's a validation that reaches down into the heart and soul of the artist.

by the way... I love you.

Steven Siro Vai
Sound like a guy that doesn't care?
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  #95  
Old 01-18-2007, 12:30 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


Quote:
Originally Posted by rareguitar View Post

Hey Guys,

I am THAT GUY who bought two of them for $4999. Seems like I got them for $1000 off of what the big music websites have them for. Anyway I do play my guitars and have quite a few, that said I have never lost money on any guitars I have ever bought and I have bought several hunderd of them over the years.

Maybe this will be the first time I picked wrong but I dont think so. I think the JEM 20 is unique and fun. Rock & Roll is not supposed to be dull, so I like the attitude of the guitar. If it doesnt work out thats cool, I am not afraid to be the FOOL who parted with his money. Dont think so though.

Brad
Rareguitar..... let me make sure my math is correct. Unless you're a dealer..... several hundred instruments over a 20 year playing span is quite a few for even the most seasoned player.

Let's just say it's 200 guitars..... is that a reasonable assumption? Now if I divide 200 by the 20 years you say you've been playing in your profile.... that's like 10 guitars a year. Am I correct so far??? Now lets just say those guitars averaged $500.00 each, that's like $5000.00 a year and over 20 years that's $100,000.00 in guitars alone you've owned!

If you're a dealer I can understand that, but having done that on a military income at some point and as just a private "collector"...... and I'm definatly impressed.

I would also like to know the store or Ibanez dealer you've dealt with on your most recent purchase. Because a $4999.99 for each, sure sounds like a sweetheart deal and would hope you'd be willing to share this with the rest of us average joe's.

Either way..... you've got to post pic's of these rare babies when you recieve them along with some of your other rare guitars. Good luck with your investment...... you must be one hell of a player and salesman. PM me..... maybe we can do a deal sometime.
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  #96  
Old 01-18-2007, 12:35 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


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Originally Posted by Jeroenn View Post
Peeps

Jeroen
Vai.com
Hey.... thanks for showing us some respect! Is Steve aware you represent him and his website like this???? Maybe we should show the same respect in return. Let us know if that's Okay with Steve.....
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  #97  
Old 01-18-2007, 01:42 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


I'll just ask the question.

Steve, did you come up with the idea for the 20th anniversary Jem model, or did you choose that model out of several potential candidates that Ibanez made for you to look at?
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  #98  
Old 01-18-2007, 02:53 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


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Originally Posted by jemplayer55 View Post
Hey.... thanks for showing us some respect! Is Steve aware you represent him and his website like this???? Maybe we should show the same respect in return. Let us know if that's Okay with Steve.....
I agree with you, man. I was pretty appalled to read Jeroen's post.
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  #99  
Old 01-18-2007, 06:32 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


Okay guys, settle down.

I hadn't planned on posting in this thread, even though I've been reading it. But I didn't really see the point of trying to change your opinion about things you don't like. And that's fine. Everyone likes different things. It's what makes us unique as human beings.

Like you have a strong opinion of things, so did Jeroen, and because it's not the same as yours, doesn't mean he's not entitled to it. He's not stating any official line. Jeroen is the tech admin at Vai.com, therefore that's why he put that after his name.

But like you're taking your dislike of the Jem20 personally, you're also choosing to take his message too personally as well, and that's just silly.

I've read some posts here though, that go beyond simply stating one’s opinion and are pretty disrespectful toward Steve too. I'm sure Steve can handle it. He has a thick skin, but don't be so outraged when someone counters your opinion, and please don't make out that you're so offended when someone tells you off.

Now that that's out of the way, let me state my opinion, and a few facts.

My opinion is: I'd love to see tons of different Jems available too. Wood grain ones, clear coats and sunburst ones, mahogany ones, swirly ones and flat color ones. But just because I think it would be a great idea to do that, doesn't mean that its good business sense. People get choice fatigue for one thing, but also, it's not necessarily profitable to have too many variants to choose from either. Many people talk about Ibanez and Steve’s choices as if they are completely random and made without any reference to anything. But remember that there are reasons for everything. And if something isn’t the way you want it, there’s probably a good reason why.

Over the life of the Jem there have been many different configurations - more than many other signature guitars I can think of. Steve has always designed the guitars - and sometimes they have been visually groundbreaking, and sometimes they have been more subdued. There really has been something for everyone (unless you’re J. Mascis who said he wouldn’t be seen dead holding a Jem.)

I've heard people say that the swirl guitars look like a transvestite's puke, and then I've heard people say that they're beautiful. I've heard other people say that the original Jem neon colors were horrendous and tasteless. I've heard people say the floral pattern Jem was "***". But yet many of us think they are instruments of beauty. Different strokes for different folks.

I get the impression that many people posting in this thread are somehow personally affronted when Steve and Ibanez come out with a guitar they don't like, or that they didn't ask for... but how would it be possible to cater to so many voices? I've seen people mock up digital “dream Jems” here that I wouldn't buy in a million years... but so what? Somewhere along the line they're sure to put something together that I like. To waste my time complaining about it on a message board and crying about it loudly as if it were some sort of human rights violation is a bit extreme though. Some of you have been wringing your hands about Ibanez's 2007 lineup as if your lives depended about it. While I appreciate the enthusiasm, I think you're taking it all a bit too seriously... After all, these are pieces or wire and wood (and sometimes lucite). There are things in this world far more worthy of your outrage.

I'm seeing people complain that Steve doesn't play the Jem guitars that Ibanez puts out, but this is just false. The BRMR is a staple item in Steve's current touring guitar lineup... Steve has played the blue Jems, the DBK, the 90th, the DNA and even the 10th live. But he also has prototypes that he’s played too, and some of them don’t even make commercial sense to mass produce – even in limited numbers.

I hear what you're saying about the sustainer. I think it would be great to release a Jem with on in it too, however as the sustainer is made by Fernandes, this would prove to be a political issue with Ibanez. Sure, they could create their own sustainer, or use Sustainiac, but that's not the type of Sustainer Steve likes - and then that would be something people would complain about too. I know some people would like to have LEDs in the fretboard like Steve’s BRMR – but remember that there is only one BRMR with LEDS in it, and that was a prototype Steve had built a long time ago – and the LEDs were aftermarket additions not done by Ibanez. Anyone can have it done themselves. The cost for Ibanez to mass produce the BRMR with LEDs probably can’t be done without the price being deemed too high for the consumer.

I also hear what you’re saying about the Edge Pro. Most of Steve’s guitars have Edge loPros in them, although he has played some guitars with Edge Pros in them on stage. I tend to prefer the Edge LoPro myself, but I have Edge Pro guitars too, and they work just fine for me. I ca only assume that Ibanez feel that the Edge Pro is an advancement in their trem design, and so only have those produced now – hence they appear on all new guitars. The original 7VWHs that Steve had delivered to him had original Edges on them, but the models from each subsequent year have the latest trem on them.

I read people above saying Steve should go back to "the roots" and release another DBK Jem, yet I'm also reading people complain about the new black Jem.

As someone else pointed out above, people complain about the 555 saying it's cheap, yet the complain about the Jem7 Prestige models as being too expensive. But put these guitars in contrast with a PRS, or a Les Paul, they really aren't that expensive. I personally don't find the price of Jems too high. They are both functional tools and luxury items. I see the anniversaries as being collectible guitars - and if someone chooses to buy it and put it under the bed, or play the **** out of it is up to them – but they shouldn’t be criticized for either.

If I bought a Jem20, or even a Jem10, or DNA or UV swirl, I would do so because it's a thing of beauty I would cherish. They aren’t only instruments to me, but works of art. So the Jem20 was conceived as something unique, very limited, and commemorative. It’s production is expensive and complicated. Sure – it’s easy to pass it off as a piece of plastic – but if it’s a piece of plastic to you, then save your money for a different guitar.

And though some of you took exception to Jeroen’s comment that (paraphrased) said “if you don’t like it don’t worry – there are other guitars that you’ll like better;” this is a simple pragmatic approach. It’s not a “**** you” - it’s just an acknowledgement that you can’t please everybody. And while one of you said it doesn’t sound like the “words of the man” – it’s realistic to think that Steve would probably shrug his shoulders and agree – that you can’t please everybody. He can only hope that the next Jems that come out might appeal to people – but there’s sure to be a camp that hates those too.

Like I said above, not every Jem has thrilled me to the core, but there have been plenty that I love – so they are the ones I go after. If this year’s lineup doesn’t appeal to me, I’m sure that perhaps next year there will be some that will.

Now that I’ve stated my opinion, let me state a few facts:

Regarding the design of the Jem: Steve oversees every aspect of the Jem, and things usually go through countless revisions before they are approved. I have had hands-on experience working with Steve on a project for Ibanez, so I can state this without hesitation or doubt.

The Jem is designed around his idiosyncrasies – both as a player and as an artist. There has been lots of experimentation on Steve’s part with different Jem configurations – but he likes the sound of the way the guitar is now – hence you haven’t seen a mahogany Jem, or a Jem with a completely scalloped board etc. etc. released to the public (yet anyway....) A “blues Jem” like someone suggested, or any other genre-specific Jem wouldn’t be staying true to the type of music Steve makes – so what would be the point? That’s what the RG is for. The Jem is a guitar designed to help Steve achieve the sounds he’s looking for. And like any professional player, he occasionally modifies his gear – but don’t expect all of those mods to carry over into the guitars released to the public. I doubt many people would find a guitar with tape over the bottom of the neck pickup very appealing.

There are many other speculative comments that are being thrown around as fact - and I can understand Jeroen feeling the need to point out that just because you might think something and say it, doesn't suddenly make it reality. I’ll have to address those as I see them – it’s getting too late right now for me to sift through the thread – though I will say that I’m encouraged to read posts from Demiurge and Davester1234 in particular who seem to have a pretty good understanding of how the world works and the practicalities involved.

The bottom line is this: Even if you don’t like a certain Jem, I doubt distributors will have a tough time moving them off the shelves. For everyone who hates a certain type of guitar, there are another 5 with hot cash in their hands who want to exchange it for the same instrument.. In relation to the Jem 20, it’s a highly limited run, and geared towards the collector – while the VWH and the new BK are geared towards the player. There is no sign whatsoever that a special issue acrylic guitar represents the future of the Jem or Ibanez.

Phew – now my fingers are tired.

Thanks for listening, and by no means think this is a message discouraging you from expressing your taste or opinion. I’m only representing another opinion, but one that is based in the knowledge of proximity, practicality and insight into how things work in the world of Steve Vai.

Mikey
Vai.com
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  #100  
Old 01-18-2007, 06:52 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


vai.com, it's official. As glen said before, it looks better with the proper lighting and background.

Last edited by barbarelaxe; 01-18-2007 at 06:58 AM..
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  #101  
Old 01-18-2007, 06:58 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MM View Post
My opinion is: I'd love to see tons of different Jems available too. Wood grain ones, clear coats and sunburst ones, mahogany ones, swirly ones and flat color ones. But just because I think it would be a great idea to do that, doesn't mean that its good business sense. People get choice fatigue for one thing, but also, it's not necessarily profitable to have too many variants to choose from either. Many people talk about Ibanez and Steve’s choices as if they are completely random and made without any reference to anything. But remember that there are reasons for everything. And if something isn’t the way you want it, there’s probably a good reason why.
Oh well, there are always the custom shops.

But why was the floral JEM discontinued? I think that, even though it had been around for a long time, it was still very popular and selled very well?

Myst
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  #102  
Old 01-18-2007, 07:55 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


Actually I think the 20th as pictured on vai.com looks superb.... but thats only a small part of the story, its what it sounds like that we should be more concerned with!
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  #103  
Old 01-18-2007, 08:06 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


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Originally Posted by jemplayer55 View Post
Rareguitar..... let me make sure my math is correct. Unless you're a dealer..... several hundred instruments over a 20 year playing span is quite a few for even the most seasoned player.

Let's just say it's 200 guitars..... is that a reasonable assumption? Now if I divide 200 by the 20 years you say you've been playing in your profile.... that's like 10 guitars a year. Am I correct so far??? Now lets just say those guitars averaged $500.00 each, that's like $5000.00 a year and over 20 years that's $100,000.00 in guitars alone you've owned!

If you're a dealer I can understand that, but having done that on a military income at some point and as just a private "collector"...... and I'm definatly impressed.

I would also like to know the store or Ibanez dealer you've dealt with on your most recent purchase. Because a $4999.99 for each, sure sounds like a sweetheart deal and would hope you'd be willing to share this with the rest of us average joe's.

Either way..... you've got to post pic's of these rare babies when you recieve them along with some of your other rare guitars. Good luck with your investment...... you must be one hell of a player and salesman. PM me..... maybe we can do a deal sometime.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I used to be a guitar dealer for about 6 years in the 1990's when I got out of the Marine Corps. (Virginia Beach Vintage Guitars). I didnt buy many guitars when I was in the service :-).

I didnt start really buying lots of guitars until 1992 or so and I have reckon I have spent not less than 7 figures on guitars ovr the last 15 years.

I make my living selling real estate and I have fun buying, collecting and selling guitars. If you look at the Guitar Center website they have an original 1954 Fender Stratocaster for sale they bought from me a few months back in Dallas. http://www.vintageguitars.net/produc...l=Strat&make=7

I probably buy around 6-8 guitars a month depending on what I like and I try to play all my guitars. I just recently got into Ibanez guitars and have bought several. I think the best new guitar investment right now is Tom Anderson guitars with the shake out going on in his shop.

Do a search here, I have posted some of my Ibanez's here on the site and will post the bookend Jem 20's when they come in. Also no need to post the store as I bought the entire allotment they are getting. Try Matts Music here on Jemsite. I think you will get a great deal there!

Here is a little snapshot of my gear room with Gibson Korina Guitars (V, Futura & Explorer) and a cool all gold HLE Strat and a Hendrix Stack) .



Back to the JEMS's I think they are a great line and you cant please all the people all of the time. I dont get the people bashing the JEM 20 guitar. If you want a great looking and playing regular JEM spend $2K and get the popular white and gold one.

I am glad Ibanez makes some far out stuff too for guys who want it. If you dont like it vote with your pocketbook and dont buy it. There will always be a market for the limited stuff as long as JEM's have a following and they dont make too many.

Enzo Ferrari always said he wanted to make one less car than he could sell to keep up the exclusivity and panache of the brand. Hopefully Ibanez and Steve Vai have the same mindset with the limited stuff. I hope Steve actually plays the guitar on a dark stage and puts it on the map. I guess we will see.

Brad

ps: I am a much better salesman than a guitar player but I can play.

Last edited by rareguitar; 01-18-2007 at 08:32 AM..
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  #104  
Old 01-18-2007, 08:32 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


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Originally Posted by MM View Post
Okay guys, settle down.

I hadn't planned on posting in this thread, ...

Mikey
Vai.com
+1

Thanks Mikey I appreciate the well thought out reply and agree 100%.

Brad
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  #105  
Old 01-18-2007, 09:30 AM
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Re: Complain to Steve about the JEM/UV LINEUP here (no long winded rants elsewhere)


I guess there is no safety here. No disrespect against Mr. Vai or Mikey or anyone but it seemed to me like this was the one centralized location where people were supposed to go to complain... and all I see are people, however closely associated with Steve or not, coming in here and getting pissed off at how ignorant we all are for being dissapointed. Dissapointed, not pissed or emotionally disabled

Its pretty simple for me. if I had the money you would see in my possession two new jems. I would not necessarilly play an acryllic guitar live or even for practice but it would make probably the most rare and interesting lamps I have ever owned.

I imagine it as a scenario where people are told everyone who wants soda go left everyone who wants milk go right and then people are berrated for liking one thing or another.

I'll be honest, in ten years I have only ever bought jems for myself. I know that I have started to consider other possibilities for my next guitar and whether or not that is because the jem is overall less satisfying than it used to be or that I am interested in a different sound now than I was before is hard to say. I'll make that decision once the options are played after all. I didn't even know you could buy a jem when I got my first one I saw one, played it and had not played anything like it before.
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