Did Vai reinvent the jackson soloist? - Page 2

Phillip · #16 03-02-2005, 06:30 PM

Mustian said that he went to ESP, because the previous owner of Jackson sold the company to Fender and not to him. He said that he was the main endorser for Jackson (with MF as well), he's done a lot for the popularity of Jackson guitars and it's not fair, they didn't sold it to him but to Fender. He gave them serious offer, but IMO Fender just bid more money.

Shibi-Wan · #17 03-02-2005, 06:33 PM

Prior to my Jem/Universe, my primary guitar was a Charvel 475 SP (waaay back when they were made in Japan). I picked up a Jem 7VWH in a GC and found that it felt like my 475 and then some, in terms of feel and playability - that's what sold me on the Jem!

Both guitars are almost the shaped same, even down to the feel of the neck. The only exception was the DK style had 22 frets back then....

whatshisname · #18 03-02-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip

Mustian said that he went to ESP, because the previous owner of Jackson sold the company to Fender and not to him. He said that he was the main endorser for Jackson (with MF as well), he's done a lot for the popularity of Jackson guitars and it's not fair, they didn't sold it to him but to Fender. He gave them serious offer, but IMO Fender just bid more money.

He also said that it had to do with Jackson "not being able" to build his new signature model, which ESP is now making(I forget what it's called).

jem7vwh · #19 03-02-2005, 09:38 PM

I think the simple matter of fact is that in the modern era of solid body electrics, it doesn't really matter who makes Vai's model as long as his demands are met.

In the age of computerized machinery and automation, just about any of the major companies could take Vai's specs and make a guitar equal in feel and quality to the JEM.

I will say that I wish Jackson would incorporate several innovations Ibanez has- the better floating trem and the AANJ.

darren wilson · #20 03-02-2005, 10:32 PM

Jackson Guitars hasn't been owned by a "guy" for a while now. Grover Jackson sold the company to Akai Musical Instruments Corporation a number of years ago, and they sold it to Fender.

whatshisname · #21 03-03-2005, 08:02 AM

Speaking of Grover, does anyone know what company he's with now? He was with Washburn, wasn't he?

Phillip · #22 03-03-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darren wilson

Jackson Guitars hasn't been owned by a "guy" for a while now. Grover Jackson sold the company to Akai Musical Instruments Corporation a number of years ago, and they sold it to Fender.

I didn't say guy, just owner. I just wrote what I've read few months ago in some UK guitarmag (there was interview with Mustaine). But anyway, thanks for correcting me! :-)

RCB · #23 03-03-2005, 11:43 AM

I know most people are aware of this, but some others seem to be a little confused.

Vai didnt invent the jem/RG guitar shape. He asked for a guitar with certain specs and ibanez presented him the jem guitar. The pyramids, the lion claw the HSH config and the monkey grip were probably Vai requests, but Im pretty sure that the shape of the RG/jem guitar was concieved by Ibanez.

So, if you are comparing the jem/RG shape to a jackson and you feel they are very similar, its probably more accurate to say that Ibanez reinvented the DK or the soloist... not Vai.

ozzguitardude · #24 03-03-2005, 01:04 PM

The way I undertand it, Vai invented the grip, the pyramid inlays, the claw and MAYBE the recessed trem - Not too sure on that last one though. My old 80's Yamaha SG350 has a recessed trem but I'm not sure on the year. SO did Vai re-invent the soloist? In my opinion, he added to the basic concept but I don't think he re-invented it. The only big thing I see is the recessed trem.

Jackson was definitely a pioneer in the super strat concept but Eddie Van Halen was the one that invented the whole super strat thing. Charvel helped Ed with some of his guitars and that probably bled into his partnership with Grover Jackson with the soloist, which refined the shape with the square edges.

Also, keep in mind that Kramer was a big player in the 80's - Everyone was playing them and most of them had the RG/Soloist look and feel. Which came up with the shape first? Kramer or Jackson? Also, they had a sustainer model.

GuitarAkuma · #25 03-04-2005, 05:50 AM

Update! yesterday I measured the neck on my 7VWH an the soloist the only differences are:

1: the 7VWH is 1mm thicker (depth)
2: the jackson has superiour quality ebony!

GuitarAkuma · #26 03-04-2005, 06:05 AM

The best way to truly appreciate this is actually play a Jackson SL2H Soloist, then play say a 7V the difference in build quality between the two is VERY noticable.

For instance the sheer quality and attention to detail on things as picky as glue round the edges of the neck inlays on the Jackson is staggering. My 7V has glue marks and a dent in one of the inlays, and having closely inspected a few 7Vs have found the same cosmetic flaws 9/10 which should NOT exist on a flagship guitar....

Look closely at the finishes on the Soloists especially the Errie Dess Swirl its gobsmacking, and what do Ibanez offer us? White and black!

When you consider the AANJ is now widely copied even by Godin! And the LoPro Edge trem it proves Ibanez commitment (in the early days) to pushing the boundaries of the electric guitar for the players benefit no simply as a cash cow. I fear that these days Vai is more a brand name than allowed real creative input in the evolution (excuse the pun!) of the JEM unlike in the first 5-10 years of the JEMs existence hence the poor "bad horse" model, I bet if you asked him im secret he would MADE SURE Ibanez released the PROPER replica model with the full electronics etc

RCB · #27 03-04-2005, 11:35 AM

How can you possibly know the difference in the quality of the ebony on each guitar? How do you grade it?

I like jackson guitars, Id love to have a PC1. Perhaps you should compare a soloist to an RGT3120 or a neckthrough J custom.

You complain about a minor cosmetic issue on the jem, and you say that the jackson is a better guitar because of that. What about the vastly superior tremolo you get on the jem (or any MIJ ibanez)?

Im not saying that a jem is better than a soloist, or that an RGT3120 is better than a soloist. They are comparable guitars.

Keep in mind that you can get a Jcustom for the same money that a soloist..... and I would take most of them over a soloist any day.

About the jem....Steve is probably as involved as he cares to be. Long gone are the days when he changed guitars every couple of years. He went from playing the LGN and DY to the FP, then the UVMC and finally the 7VWH, all this in a period of 6 years (and Im just talking about his "main" players).
He s been playing the same guitar for 12 years, so he probably doesnt care about the "evolution" of the jem line that much. He seems comfortable with the looks and features of that guitar. Ibanez is happy too since they dont have to spend that much money in R&D for the jem line.

Keep in mind that Ibanez is not the jem line. Ibanez offers a ton of different RG shaped guitars to choose from (if you inlcude the J custom line). This year they have an amazing line up to choose from. If you only take into account the high end RG shaped guitars, you have the RGs, RGAs, RGTs and Jcustoms. Although you could also include the jems and the PGMs.

GuitarAkuma · #28 03-04-2005, 12:39 PM

absolutely true RCB, but the quality of the ebony is not as good, even my old Les Paul Custom has better ebony!

True the Ibanez trems (as I pointed out) are the best in the business as true innovation, and yes I acknowledge that Ibanez are more than just JEMS (I have owed a fair few 550's 560s and still own a 505!) but I am making a noted comparision between Vais model and the Soloist. I would conjecture that the only reason Ibanez never did a thru neck JEM because Jackson would sue! (remember the PRS Vs gibson case recently?)

I love the JEM series I have owned a few and still own 2 (777VDY, 7VWH) and I don't think of them in terms of one make is better than the other, I don't think the Jackson is a better all round guitar, same as the JEM is not a better all round guitar, I just found sound uncanny similarities between the two!

RCB · #29 03-04-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarAkuma

absolutely true RCB, but the quality of the ebony is not as good, even my old Les Paul Custom has better ebony!

True the Ibanez trems (as I pointed out) are the best in the business as true innovation, and yes I acknowledge that Ibanez are more than just JEMS (I have owed a fair few 550's 560s and still own a 505!) but I am making a noted comparision between Vais model and the Soloist. I would conjecture that the only reason Ibanez never did a thru neck JEM because Jackson would sue! (remember the PRS Vs gibson case recently?)

I love the JEM series I have owned a few and still own 2 (777VDY, 7VWH) and I don't think of them in terms of one make is better than the other, I don't think the Jackson is a better all round guitar, same as the JEM is not a better all round guitar, I just found sound uncanny similarities between the two!

I think you, and everyone, would agree that the RG is more similar to a soloist than the jem. Ibamez did and still do several neckthrough Rgs, so you are wrong about your conjecture. The RG is different enough from the soloist. In fact they are very different guitar shapes as far a superstrats go. THe Kramer, the ESP, the Pacifica, the Jackson, The heartfield and the Ibanez RG are all superstrats and share some caracteristics. There are other superstrats that are even more similar to the soloist than the RG. There is no way on earth that Jackson could sue Ibanez, Yamaha or Fender and win.

sniperfrommars1 · #30 03-06-2005, 02:15 PM

I dont really see how the recessed trem arguement matters all that much. On the original strats they were designed to be setup floating, albeit they didnt stay in tune all that well they still allowed pullup, so I dont really think it matters all that much. Back to the topic at hand, Vai was an avid player of jackson and charvel guitars, I think one of the main reasons he gravitated towards ibanez is the clearly superior tremolo quality. The edge trem is in essence a triple locking system, combined with the locking studs, and for someone like vai it was a no brainer. Ibanez jackson and esp all make a model that feels quite similar in one form or the other whether that similarity is the radius, neck shape, scale, body size, tremolo or whatever, you can find one model through the years that fits that description.