Has the quality level increased or decreased? - Ibanez throu

[Mirrored CAT]

Do you think that JEM/UV guitars (and ibanez guitars in general) have gained quality through the years, or do you think the opposite? What about between Ibanez and other companies (specially Jackson)?

[jem7vwh]

it's kinda weird. *I think the line is diverging. *In many ways they are getting better, but also worse. *Primarily, I think the upper level models (JEM, JS, Prestige, J-Customs) have always been good and in many cases continue to get better. *Ask Rich Harris about the scallop quality on the newest JEMs. * *On the other hand, when the RG line was outsourced to Korea, these instruments took a dive in quality control. *I think you're probably a little more likely to get a dud RG-450 than you would have been in '86. * But you're also more likely to get a perfect JEM7VWH now than you would have in 1995. *As I said, many of the little details of quality control have been smoothed out on the high end models. *The new finishes don't fade like the flourescents did. *The scallops continually get smoother and better. *The inlay work is very tight. *And in general Ibanez is always increasing the quality of their hardware. *They went from having a very high quality version of the Floyd Rose, to having a very high quality flat profile version of the Floyd Rose. *So in general, they continue to refine and get better. *Just don't buy an RG-270.

[jemsite]

yup. In short.... the good stuff (made in Japan) is better. The bad stuff (not made in Japan) is worse than the models they replaced.

I'm not counting the USA-made stuff which was top shelf too... glen

[Vaibanez]

Quote: from jemsite on 11:39 am on June 6, 2001
yup. In short.... the good stuff (made in Japan) is better.

Better than 10 years ago?

Bottom line....quality cuts into profits.

However, with the advent of computer aided manufacturing and design, the likleyhood of defects caused by poor human workmanship has been drastically reduced. The cost per hour for a machine to cut a body the same every time is far less than having a human do the same job. Productivity goes up as do profits. Spend "x" amount to produce 20 or spend the same on a human to produce 10 with 3 of those being slightly off.

Quality is a subjective term that can mean different things to different people. I feel the "quality" of the Japanese made guitar is better for the simple reason that they use better manufacturing processes.

Higher quality equates to higher retail cost.
Why does the Jem cost more than the RG? More money spent on humans making sure the guitar is right. More human hands working on the different components. I think the RG5** line is a great, mid-level guitar. But, Jackson has been a strong contender for as long as I have been playing. You can't compaire the two companies because they have different approaches to their products. Each are fine instruments that are well worth the money. The difference is when you get into the High end models. Jackson's shop is in California.... Ibanez's shop is in Japan.

J>

[Rich]

Ibanez has been making guitars a long time. Their Classic period stuff was better than anything being made by the big boys. Quality seemed to slip a little with the advent of the "Shred Guitar" and the quality today is much higher than it was at the beginning of this market. It isn't flawless yet and there are sometimes problems with some of the parts Ibanez does not make, ie. the hardware, but they are dilligently trying to continue improving.

[diek]

In my opinion, they have stayed the same. The difference in their high end and their low end is so negligable to me that I kind of see all Ibanez guitars in the same category. The thing I consider Ibanez's hailing benchmark is the advent of the Edge tremelo (and consequently the lo-pro). It was a nice advancement of the orig. Floyd. The tragedy is that they haven't done anything with it since 91'. And trust me, I have 10 ideals of what they could do to advance it even further. Other than that, their high end line adds some aesthetic differences with some better treatments, but nothing that really puts them into what I would consider "high end". I would like to see them really push the "high end" concept and push the J customs to be something more than just a glorified RG. If you're gonna to only make 24 of any one guitar, you might as well make them extremely unique. Since Ibanez has enlarged it's marketshare over the last decade, I think they are resting on their laurels...like Gibson and Fender.

[jay ratkowski]

Quote: from diek on 12:49 pm on June 7, 2001
The thing I consider Ibanez's hailing benchmark is the advent of the Edge tremelo (and consequently the lo-pro). It was a nice advancement of the orig. Floyd.

Amen

The tragedy is that they haven't done anything with it since 91'.

Sad but true. *To me... it's like building a nice house, and leaving the roof off of it for a few years... you have a great building block with the Edge, but there hasn't been much done since then. *Even if they don't evolve the trem, Ibanez could at least make advancements with the guitar itself to match the nice-quality floyd they use.

If you're gonna to only make 24 of any one guitar, you might as well make them extremely unique.

AMEN!!!

Since Ibanez has enlarged it's marketshare over the last decade, I think they are resting on their laurels...like Gibson and Fender.

Again... sad but true. *It seems that once someone builds a name for themselves, they expect to just ride the wave of that big name... but never really live up to the work they went through to get to where they are. *Vai is a good example of that... but I'm not going into that here.

[jemsite]

The thing I consider Ibanez's hailing benchmark is the advent of the Edge tremelo (and consequently the lo-pro). It was a nice advancement of the orig. Floyd. The tragedy is that they haven't done anything with it since 91'.

I disagree.*Even if you wanted to argue 15 improvements, you can't debate the addition of the PIEZO system to it nor the RG2027 FLOPPING in the usa marketplace. Personally speaking i think the EDGE was PERFECT and even "updates" like the LoPro is unnecessary changes. IMHO they were obviously due to marketplace competition and I would NOT welcome any changes in the system.

I think they are resting on their laurels...like Gibson and Fender.

I don't. *I think you really need to examine what new models Ibanez has produced in the past decade before quickly making such comments.

Some of you guys really think putting yuppie "10" tops and other vintage crap into the markeplace is "innovation" but I don't. Like any company, Ibanez NEEDS to make a profit. It's very easy to be a monday-morning quarterback but once in a while you just need to realize things aren't so simple in market as they are on paper.

I'm not even going to bother answering JAY's post. From a DNA buyer you really need to speak with your WALLET not your keyboard. It's much more effective.

Respectfully...glen

[jay ratkowski]

I don't. *I think you really need to examine what new models Ibanez has produced in the past decade before quickly making such comments.

New models like what? *The double edge models were a nice idea in theory... until they put really boring "tops" on them in a failed attempt at class. *The new midi RG is cool, but the chances of finding/affording one are slim. *Other than that... I see a bunch of different colored basswood guitars with trems. *Same thing Ibanez has been doing for years. *The AANJ is neat, but it's nothing new. *Maybe I'm missing something.

As for being a DNA owner, yeah I bought a collectable guitar... if you're going to try and include one extravagent purchase I made into what you expect my views of Ibanez as a whole to be... then don't. *Just because I bought an expensive guitar over a year ago, doesn't bind me to being an Ibanez devotee for life. (yes it was over a year ago... I ordered my DNA in February 2000.)

(Edited by jay ratkowski at 2:16 pm on June 7, 2001)


(Edited by jay ratkowski at 2:19 pm on June 7, 2001)

[jemsite]

*Maybe I'm missing something.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding... we have a winner folks

As for being a DNA owner, yeah I bought a collectable guitar... if you're going to try and include one extravagent purchase I made into what you expect my views of Ibanez as a whole to be... then don't

Nope, you just are a classic example of the markeplace today. Order some ENDORSED signature guitar and let the other stuff sit on shelves. Then bitch and moan nothing new is released. Gee i wonder why that is?????

It's not just you jay, for example, it's people buying the new EB JPs too having NEVER played them (or reading about them from Pauls NAMM report)! Or people pre-ordering PRSs based on 10 minutes with a TOTALLY different model in ******. *Talk about a leap of faith. Gotta net!

At least with a JEM/RGs, etc you know what you're getting. Like it or not. I happen to like them very much... glen

[jay ratkowski]

Okay Glen... you seem to be the ominous one when it comes to the wonderful new Ibanez guitars that everyone is raving about. *Care to enlighten us on what exactly has been released lately that is so much more worthwhile than an RG770 with an AANJ?

I never said I knew the answers to what Ibanez needs to do for improvements. *All I'm saying is that they've made essentially the same guitar for the last 10-20 years... with the exception of adding an Edge trem. *Like I stated before... I could be missing something. *I don't think I am. *Instead of making groin-shot remarks, why don't you explain exactly what Ibanez has done to improve/advance their line of guitars lately. *(besides re-stating that the overseas workers get paid a few more yen/hour lately)

(Edited by jay ratkowski at 2:33 pm on June 7, 2001)

[jem7vwh]

The Edge/ Lo Pro Edge
-----------------------------

Ibanez has done so much to this stuff. *Remember that the big Floyd model before the Edge was called the Power Rocker, which looked a lot like a Kahler. *Look at what they did:
- The Power Rocker
- The Edge
- Handrest for the Edge
- Lo Pro Edge
- Edge 7
- Lo Pro Edge 7
- Double Edge

Since 1985 (16 years) we've seen 7 distinct innovations just regarding the bridge. *How many times has Jackson redesigned their bridge? *Zero. *How many times has Fender redesigned their bridge? One (in the mid 90's when they added better saddles). *How many times has Gibson even offered a Trem on the LP? *rarely in the 80's when they tried using Kahlers.

Ibanez is very forward thinking in their design process.

As far as Ibanez resting on their laurels- I'm amazed at how many new models have come out.

Since '95 we've had the JEM7VWH, the JEM7BSB, the JEM7DBK, the JEM90HAM, the JEM10, the RG7 line, the RG3120, RG7CST, RG2027 and other double edge models, the Talman, the SA, the SCR. *What new models has Fender debuted? *Other than the signature models which are only color and pickguard variations of a strat? *None. *

I think ya'll like to complain a lot, but honestly Ibanez gives more variety and diversity throughout their line than practically anyone else.

[jay ratkowski]

Quote: from jem7vwh on 2:35 pm on June 7, 2001
The How many times has Jackson redesigned their bridge? *Zero. *How many times has Fender redesigned their bridge? One (in the mid 90's when they added better saddles). *How many times has Gibson even offered a Trem on the LP? *rarely in the 80's when they tried using Kahlers.

Have you heard the expression "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ??? Maybe these companies don't offer a perfect guitar for you... but how many times do you hear Jackson, Fender or Gibson users complaining about lack of innovation on their guitar bridge? *I think the problems with Ibanez came because they seemed to be so geared around innovation and advancement, but it has dropped off.

As for the 7 string Edge, I don't consider this an evolvement. *More like accomidating the additional string. * The double edge was mearly merging two pieces of pre-existing technology. *Call that an advancement if you wish...

[jay ratkowski]

[quote]Quote: from jemsite on 1:51 pm on June 7, 2001

speak with your WALLET not your keyboard. It's much more effective.

Look at the last few guitars I've purchased (G&L, Tom Anderson, Gibson)... if that isn't speaking with my wallet, I don't know what is.

[jem7vwh]

Have you heard the expression "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ???

Now you're contradicting yourself. *You can't tell me that you want Ibanez to offer more advancements and then make excuses when confronted with the fact that they make advancements more than any other guitar company. *I've played Jacksons and Fenders extensively. *Believe me, they're not perfect. *

You can't have it both ways. *If you "don't fix it if ain't broken" then stop whining about advancing the Edge. *If you do like advancements, then you have to admit Ibanez does it better than most of it's peers.