Looking for some help regarding Jems...

Rogue · #1 03-17-2006, 03:02 PM

Hello fellow Jemers. I have some perplexing questions about my Jems and found this site. Seems to be a wealth of knowledgable jem owners and I hope some can help me out.

Let me give some background....I bought my son a Jem for his birthday about 1 1/2 years ago. I figured if he didn't stay interested in guitar, then I wouldn't have a problem owning a Jem. So it was worth the purchase. After playing with his for a while, I decided to sell my Axis and get myself a Jem (he would not part with his).

His was a 7VSBL. I thought a 7VWH would be cool, so looked for one on **** about 6 months ago. I found one and bought it at a pretty fair price ($1400). I got the guitar and it was in great shape. As time passed, I began noticing some subtle differences in tone. I then began to question the authenticity of the 7VWH. I called around until I finally got a hold of someone that could verify the serial number. He confirmed it was a 1999 Jem, but that was all the info he could give me about it. So, at the very least, the neck is original. LOL!

The difference in tone is a few things (all bridge pu).

1) The 7VSBL has a more defined lower end and seems to have a slight bit more gain, or perhaps 'output' would be the appropriate term. Muting the E and A strings is just more defined on the 7VSBL. The 7VWH's E and A string just doesn't have the string definition. I'm not sure how else to describe that.

2) The mids/low mids of the 7VWH is more pronounced, and has a 'boxier' kind of sound that the 7VSBL. Also, the 7VSBL has a bit, just a bit, more low end than the 7VWH. It's also slightly darker.

3) The 7VWH is a 'cleaner' tone. Playing the lower strings close to the body is where this is most apparent. For example, playing around the 15th fret on the E and B strings have a more natural, notey, woody kind of sound. The 7VSBL has a little more 'sizzle' and 'grit'...for lack of better terms.

These differences are subtle, but distinct after playing with the two for a while. I prefer the cleaner highs of the 7VWH but the more defined lower end of the 7VSBL. I also prefer the more subtle and less boxy sound of the mids/low mids on the 7VSBL.

I wrote the differences off as the individual character each guitar, but I was still concerned and decided to look into it further.

Jemsite says both guitars have the evolutions and essentially the same guitar except for the color and hardware. So, this prompted me to look into the pickups.

This is what I found, and has raised questions:

7VSBL 7VWH

Bridge 12.87 k ohms Bridge 13.39 k ohms
Middle 11.90 k ohms Middle 11.95 k ohms
Neck 11.98 k ohms Neck 12.09 k ohms

The neck and middle seems fairly close, but the bridge resistance is concerning. According to Dimarzios site, the Neck should be 13.04 k ohms and the Bridge should be 13.84 k ohms....I measured the resistance through the guitar cord, so that may account for the difference in my measured value and spec, however, I'm not sure how it would be less resistance. The bridge PU on the other hand, the difference from one to the other is concerning.

I'm at a loss at this point and hoping someone more knowledgable than me about these things can give some advice or insight.

Thanks.

Rogue · #2 03-17-2006, 03:11 PM

Hmmm, somehow I have managed duplicate threads. How can I delete one, or can the mods possibly delete it for me.

Thanks

ibanezcollector · #3 03-17-2006, 03:38 PM

no pickup, no matter how advanced technology is, will be exactly alike, the smallest of things maybe say a piece of rust in the pickup windings will make all the difference in tonallity.

I think personally those measurements arent to far off, you got to consider paint to, if one is more dense then the other it will affect tone..

Just cause they share the same materials an construction doesnt mean there going to sound alike.. Its mass produced and that means it will vary from one model to the next.

Rogue · #4 03-17-2006, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the reply collector. I originally wrote the differences off as the individual character of the guitars, however, was still a bit concerned as to the authenticity of the 7VWH since I bought it off ****. That's mainly why I checked the resistance of the pu's just for peace of mind.

I don't know how 'exact' the resistance of the pickups should be. I'm sure there is no way it would be perfectly exact, but I didn't know what the margin of error might be. Nor do I know how measuring the resistance from the guitar cord would affect those readings considering it takes into account wiring and pots and what not.

Do you feel the 500 ohm variance is an acceptable margin of error? Is that difference fairly common place? I honestly don't know. The middle and neck pus were almost a dead match. The bridge had a fair bit of discrepancy.

Thanks again.

**jaxadam** · #5 03-17-2006, 04:17 PM

Yeah, I don't really think you're off by too much to be concerned about.

Two of the exact guitar with same hardware, pickups, color, etc. will play and sound a little different.

My only advice is that if you like the 7VSBL more, paint your VWH blue and swap it with your son's when he's sleeping.

P.S. If you are measuring from the chord then you are going to encounter a whole world of things that are going to affect the impedance.l

JJEMMER777 · #6 03-17-2006, 04:24 PM

Hi Rouge - I have both guitars as well. 2002 VSBL / 2000 VWH. They do sound a bit different. Actually - they ARENT the same exact guitar except for the paint / harware. One big difference is the fret board material. Your vwh is a 1999 so I will have the ebony board (as does mine) The VSBL has the rosewood board. You'd be surprised how much tonal difference between the two woods. Yes - mine sound different, and I've always chalked it up to the different fretboard materials.

That's my input for what it's worth

bluealien · #7 03-17-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJEMMER777

Hi Rouge - I have both guitars as well. 2002 VSBL / 2000 VWH. They do sound a bit different. Actually - they ARENT the same exact guitar except for the paint / harware. One big difference is the fret board material. Your vwh is a 1999 so I will have the ebony board (as does mine) The VSBL has the rosewood board. You'd be surprised how much tonal difference between the two woods. Yes - mine sound different, and I've always chalked it up to the different fretboard materials.

That's my input for what it's worth

JJEMMER777 You beat me to it... dang, I was going to mention the Neck's fretboad wood is the real difference with these 2 guitars, and since no 2 guitars sound alike, and a change of this can make the difference, this is why I per all my Jems to have just rosewood, and why I dont like my PMC as much, I really hear the change of tone the guitar has with just a maple fret board.

moro · #8 03-17-2006, 05:34 PM

You could also post photos of your VWH. People around here can spot the fakes from a mile away. Plus, we always enjoy seeing pics of people's guitars.

JJEMMER777 · #9 03-17-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluealien

JJEMMER777 You beat me to it... dang, I was going to mention the Neck's fretboad wood is the real difference with these 2 guitars, and since no 2 guitars sound alike, and a change of this can make the difference, this is why I per all my Jems to have just rosewood, and why I dont like my PMC as much, I really hear the change of tone the guitar has with just a maple fret board.

Err....uhhh...so your going to gimmie dat PMC then are ya Rich

I absolutely LOVE maple

Tom Gilroy · #10 03-17-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJEMMER777

Err....uhhh...so your going to gimmie dat PMC then are ya Rich

I absolutely LOVE maple

He has five Jems and a BRBR coming to him soon, don't spoil him anymore. If you really need to give it to somebody, I'll give it a good home.

JJEMMER777 · #11 03-17-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Gilroy

He has five Jems and a BRBR coming to him soon, don't spoil him anymore. If you really need to give it to somebody, I'll give it a good home.

Hey - you've rained on my parade

bluealien · #12 03-17-2006, 06:59 PM

Yea, I think about it, its just lying around here collecting value

JJEMMER777 · #13 03-17-2006, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluealien

Yea, I think about it, its just lying around here collecting value

Sweet

note the key word - GIMMIE:O)

Rogue · #14 03-18-2006, 02:10 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

JJEMMER777: You are right. I totally misread the jemsite info on this. The vwh does have an ebony fret board. Do ebony fretboards make for a smoother tone? The vwh seems smoother to me.

jaxadam: Haha. What's funny is he was wanting the vwh when I got it, now that he knows I like the bottom end of the vsbl more, he doesn't anymore. I'm pretty convinced if you tell a teen the opposite of what you want to do, that's the quickest way to get them to do it.

moro: I don't have any pics, but I took them both to the guitar tech I use and he believes it is authentic and said the resistance difference wasn't that concerning. He also adjusted the pickup height which seemed to get them a tad bit closer in tonality.

Thanks for the replies guys. I was just getting a little worried that I may have been bamboozled, but I have some more piece of mind now.

The only problem I have with the vwh is that the bottom two strings just are not a defined as the vsbl. Bummer.

Anyways, I love the Jem, man. Pretty versatile guitars....at least more versatile than any I had before them. I read where many folks don't use the middle pickup alone. I was kind of suprised as I use it often for some cleaner, spanky kind of stuff.

JJEMMER777 · #15 03-19-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

Thanks for the replies guys.

JJEMMER777: You are right. I totally misread the jemsite info on this. The vwh does have an ebony fret board. Do ebony fretboards make for a smoother tone? The vwh seems smoother to me..

I love the ebony. I call it black maple

Nice and smooth just like maple. Plus it's darker so it makes the MOP/Abalony vine stand out better. Rosewood is my least favorite of the neck woods. Ah well....guess I better get used to it as it looks like that is all Ibanez is going to use anymore for the most part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

The only problem I have with the vwh is that the bottom two strings just are not a defined as the vsbl. Bummer. ..

Probably just a set-up/neck/fret issue. The B and high E are very sharp and brilliant on both in my case