OT: Rant/Rant/Help/Advice Needed

RevolutionWasMyName · #1 08-14-2005, 05:58 PM

OK. So I bought an Ibanez Jem7VWH a few days ago, brand spanking new at a guitar shop. 3k$ CAN !

I take it home and inspect it thoroughly... everything seems fine and dandy, EXCEPT, it does not return to pitch after playing with the whammy bar (floating bridge). (Dive-bomb, tune the guitar, dive bomb again... release to neutral... perfect, stays in tune, if I pull the bar up, WHAM, theres this very subtle "clicking" noise and all the strings stay sharp upon returning to neutral, VERY unusual for an Ibanez JEM!)
Here's the reference thread explaining my problem: http://vai.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=162814#162814

I return to the shop the next day, after posting on the vai.com message board, I was advised to just have it setup properly as thats the problem 90% of the time.

Back to the shop... they take it upstairs, don't even try the bridge, just tune it up I guess (I couldn't go up) and give it back to me saying that it was normal at first because the strings and springs weren't stretched out, etc. etc.

I take it back home again... still... same problem... stays sharp and WILL NOT stay in tune, just goes completely out of whack when pulling up. I stretched the strings for hours and everything! Again I call them up and say that theres definatly something wrong with the bridge or its poorly set-up and I want them to check it out. He says no problem.

So I come in again today and the tech inspects for 15-20 minutes and says everything is fine! WTF? He plays it with the amp and says "look, everything sounds fine" he just softly rocked the whammy bar both ways, (like you're that gentle with it live, gimme a break!)

I say LOOK: Plug it into the tuner and show him.

This is how it looks like when returned to neutral from a dive-bomb:
------o-----REFERENCE
E-----o-----
B-----o-----
G-----o-----
D-----o-----
A-----o-----
E-----o-----

and how it looks when returned to neutral from a pull-up:
------o-----REFERENCE
E-------o---
B--------o--
G----------o
D-------o---
A-------o---
E--------o--

You can't REALLY hear it if you're playing something messy ALONE (definatly can when playing chords), but in a band or recording situation, FORGET IT!

They all then proceed to tell me that its perfectly normal for all floating bridges to do this.

Now, I've talked to numerous people who own Jems and I've played one before and they all come back to PERFECT PITCH and STAY IN PITCH no matter how badly you abuse the bridge!

So basically, he had me sign a "repair" form and I had to leave the guitar there. Now they're saying its going either back to Ibanez for THEM TO JUDGE WETHER ITS WORTHY OF REPAIR, or WAIT until a new one arrives, etc. THEY STILL HAVE MY 3K$!!!!

Now what kind of rights do I have as a customer in these suposedly "subjective" situations? I mean, I just bought the guitar a couple of days ago and now its going to be gone for 3-6 weeks to god-knows-where and is probably going to be returned to me in the same f*cking condition!

Can someone tell me I'm NOT crazy? Because my Ibanez RG470 stays in better tune than the JEM and I bought it for 250$!!! What can I do??? Did I get ripped off by signing that "repair" form??? Help??? You guys cannot BELIEVE how frustrating this is!!!

fettouhi · #2 08-14-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevolutionWasMyName

OK. So I bought an Ibanez Jem7VWH a few days ago, brand spanking new at a guitar shop. 3k$ CAN !

I take it home and inspect it thoroughly... everything seems fine and dandy, EXCEPT, it does not return to pitch after playing with the whammy bar (floating bridge). (Dive-bomb, tune the guitar, dive bomb again... release to neutral... perfect, stays in tune, if I pull the bar up, WHAM, theres this very subtle "clicking" noise and all the strings stay sharp upon returning to neutral, VERY unusual for an Ibanez JEM!)
Here's the reference thread explaining my problem: http://vai.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=162814#162814

I return to the shop the next day, after posting on the vai.com message board, I was advised to just have it setup properly as thats the problem 90% of the time.

Back to the shop... they take it upstairs, don't even try the bridge, just tune it up I guess (I couldn't go up) and give it back to me saying that it was normal at first because the strings and springs weren't stretched out, etc. etc.

I take it back home again... still... same problem... stays sharp and WILL NOT stay in tune, just goes completely out of whack when pulling up. I stretched the strings for hours and everything! Again I call them up and say that theres definatly something wrong with the bridge or its poorly set-up and I want them to check it out. He says no problem.

So I come in again today and the tech inspects for 15-20 minutes and says everything is fine! WTF? He plays it with the amp and says "look, everything sounds fine" he just softly rocked the whammy bar both ways, (like you're that gentle with it live, gimme a break!)

I say LOOK: Plug it into the tuner and show him.

This is how it looks like when returned to neutral from a dive-bomb:
------o-----REFERENCE
E-----o-----
B-----o-----
G-----o-----
D-----o-----
A-----o-----
E-----o-----

and how it looks when returned to neutral from a pull-up:
------o-----REFERENCE
E-------o---
B--------o--
G----------o
D-------o---
A-------o---
E--------o--

You can't REALLY hear it if you're playing something messy ALONE (definatly can when playing chords), but in a band or recording situation, FORGET IT!

They all then proceed to tell me that its perfectly normal for all floating bridges to do this.

Now, I've talked to numerous people who own Jems and I've played one before and they all come back to PERFECT PITCH and STAY IN PITCH no matter how badly you abuse the bridge!

So basically, he had me sign a "repair" form and I had to leave the guitar there. Now they're saying its going either back to Ibanez for THEM TO JUDGE WETHER ITS WORTHY OF REPAIR, or WAIT until a new one arrives, etc. THEY STILL HAVE MY 3K$!!!!

Now what kind of rights do I have as a customer in these suposedly "subjective" situations? I mean, I just bought the guitar a couple of days ago and now its going to be gone for 3-6 weeks to god-knows-where and is probably going to be returned to me in the same f*cking condition!

Can someone tell me I'm NOT crazy? Because my Ibanez RG470 stays in better tune than the JEM and I bought it for 250$!!! What can I do??? Did I get ripped off by signing that "repair" form??? Help??? You guys cannot BELIEVE how frustrating this is!!!

Go to the tech section of Ibanezrules.com (banner above).

Regards

André

RevolutionWasMyName · #3 08-14-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fettouhi

Go to the tech section of Ibanezrules.com (banner above).

Regards

André

Thanks but I am VERY bad with technical setups on my own. That is specifically why I brought it to the shop, and they don't have a clue, they just say its normal! By the way its a VERY reputed shop in the area.

damo7v · #4 08-14-2005, 07:40 PM

which store is looking after you?

RevolutionWasMyName · #5 08-14-2005, 07:52 PM

*DELETED*

Rich · #6 08-14-2005, 08:38 PM

Depending on the tuner [and your diagram skills] it looks to be normal for any FR with decent return. It may be improved some, but there are no false hopes, there are no 100% return trems.

red5 · #7 08-15-2005, 04:16 PM

Probably just needed a setup. Take it to me....

Eggy · #8 08-15-2005, 07:18 PM

I agree with Rich. When you check out Steve's live shows you'll notice that if he gives his giutar any kind of realy aggressive upward whammy he mostly passes that guitar to his tech and swaps for the next number.
If you bought the guitar with ,say a Visa or Master Card you should check with thier returns policy...My wife is able to return items without giving any real reason other than she is not happy (within a certain time frame) ??
You could then shop around by using your the one you returned as a benchmark. I tried to buy a Gibson 335 a few years ago and a local main dealer had 10 in stock, 9 of them were only any good for lighting fires with and the 10th wasn't perfect, although I'm not sure what Ibanez's quality control is like these days having never bought a brand new guitar.
In truth, you'll be as unlikley to find that "Holy Grail" of a perfect return trem as the rest of us I'm afraid.

Ben

**jemsite** · #9 08-15-2005, 07:42 PM

ditto.

after ideal setup, this is really classified as"user error" when you guys post like this as you are using the trem improperly given the laws of physics... glen

sniperfrommars1 · #10 08-15-2005, 08:15 PM

If his diagram is actually correct it leads me to see some actual setup issue. My rg returns to near perfect if i dont rock the bar, which is good in itself but if i *wiggle it back* its dead on every time and i usually dont have to retune even for days at a time. With ANY floating tremolo your going to have return issues based on the sheer physics of the technology. Im not good with math, and i wish someone would post those types of specs so i could at least go over that type of thing and memorize it. Anyways your crazy if you think any knife edge based system will ever return to pitch, it simply defies the laws of physics and or friction. Albeit your guitar may not be setup well and I know your looking for a certain amoutn of return. It sucks that your 470 owns your jem in those regards. You should at least check the tech section at ibanez rules, hell print the pages out and take them to the shop. Most techs are at least competent enough to follow directions. I still wish Rich would publish books like Dan Erlewine he would make a fortune on sales for that stuff alone. I would pay for it just to have the book and not have the need to reference his website. You could always call it the floyd rose bible or something Rich. Some quick things to go over at least with your type of pullup problem on a new guitar, make sure that everything is good and tight specifically *the locking nut screws behind the neck, the floyd rose saddles, locking nut pads, neck bolts, etc. Try the chapstick fix on the knife edges *works good even if your not having problems*

rgr · #11 08-15-2005, 08:15 PM

Have you ever used a Floyd type bridge before? Are the strings stretched? If they just re-tuned it, they didn't stretch strings, grab them in your hand and yank on them, enough to stretch them, but don't break them, then retune the guitar and try again. You have to do this every time you change the strings, I even do it on my Eclipse with a TOM tail and my acoustics, it makes the strings more stable.

Roger

IbanezroadstarII · #12 08-16-2005, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Depending on the tuner [and your diagram skills] it looks to be normal for any FR with decent return. It may be improved some, but there are no false hopes, there are no 100% return trems.

except for steve Vais trems cause thier made out of a very rare metal found on his home planet of mars... oh ya, and hes god.

**jemaholic** · #13 08-18-2005, 08:57 AM

Also, be cautious with the weight of your right hand resting on the bridge. This too will take it sharp if you anchor your palm too heavy.

COMMENT:

We all "wiggle" the bar to settle the bridge after aggressive bar work-you must learn the ways of the bar.

Study the bar.....
Become one with the bar.....
Only then with you properly raise the bar.....