Suppose the unthinkable happened.......

[YaYoGakk]

Originally Posted by PerKr

maybe I´m just blind or stupid or something, but it really seemed like some of you guys were getting too serious about the FLO thing (arguing about how much a JEM would cost with the modifications mentioned and doing it in a way that just does not give the impression of it being just a casual discussion).

Your neither blind nor stupid. Look around and you'll see lots of threads like that. LOL It's all part of the little 'low drama' thing we have here called Jemsite Forum

Alden

[Vaibanez]

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

True eddie. The topic isnt being addressed as it should. The question is what if vai left? What would his guitar evolve to be?

It would become extinct.

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

And basically even though its not been mentioned, is he still playing the EXACT same guitar we are buying?

He still gets the same guitar from the factory that you and I buy from the dealer. He then adds his special little touches to it.

[sniperfrommars1]

You cant tell me that. Almost all of vais main guitars are custom shop instruments, and prototypes. Although the jem7vwh, does stand up to an unmodified vwh, thats my point. Evo is a prototype, and so is flo. If you think your buying the same guitar that vai is, why are we having a four page conversation about why we want ibanez to make the guitar hes USING.

[Vaibanez]

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

You cant tell me that.

I wouldn't lie to you m'man

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

Almost all of vais main guitars are custom shop instruments, and prototypes.

That are shipped from Hoshino in the same box you and I get them in.

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

Although the jem7vwh, does stand up to an unmodified vwh, thats my point.

I would hope so, since they started life as the same guitar.

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

Evo is a prototype, and so is flo.

Nope, they are stock VWHs that have been modified by Vai in one way or another for one reason or another.

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

If you think your buying the same guitar that vai is, why are we having a four page conversation about why we want ibanez to make the guitar hes USING.

It's simple!!! A lot of people want the goodies Steve uses on his guitars. Ibanez/Hoshino does not install the sustainer, the custom shop does at Steve's request. Buzz F. works his majic on the fret board at his shop at Steve's request.

I will grant you this...Steve does not play "Stock/Factory" JEMs. But his guitars start out that way and if push came to shove, he could play one off the shelf/rack.

[sniperfrommars1]

First off flo is not a stock vwh, flo is a floral pattern modified to look like a vwh, and evo is a ONE OF A KIND prototype designed in part to test the evolution pickups. Back your stuff up with facts not ramblings

[Vaibanez]

First off flo is not a stock vwh, flo is a floral pattern modified to look like a vwh,

You're right, that was the first FLO. FLO #2 is a VWH. Check one of Glen's previous posts or ask Kevan.

and evo is a ONE OF A KIND prototype designed in part to test the evolution pickups.

I had never heard that before and you may be correct. But up until now, I've always known it to be the guitar that replaced FLO2 as his main guitar and that it was a VWH with all his goodies.

Back your stuff up with facts not ramblings.

Most, if not all my info has been obtained from this site. So chill out.

[sniperfrommars1]

Tell me to chill out. The original flo was was prototype floral pattern. EVO is a prototype along with pogo, and to some extent the original flo was also a modified proto. I never said otherwise. The information Im drawing from comes from jemsite, and vai.com. Just do the reading bub

[Vaibanez]

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

Just do the reading bub

Ok...I'll do just that. The below are taken directly from Vai.com:

1. "Evo is an Ibanez Jem7WVH, a model which is available from Ibanez." http://www.vai.com/Machines/guitarpages/guitar001.html
Sounds like a factory model to me....but I may be wrong....even though it does say Prototype. This may be the closest to an actual prototype than later guitars. But could it be because of the "Prototype" Evolution pups?

2. "Ibanez Jem 7VWH ("Pogo")" http://www.vai.com/Machines/guitarpages/guitar002.html
OK...this one may be more of a prototype, but the model name leads me to believe a factory VWH with Prototype pickups.

3. "Most people understandably think that Flo is a 7WH white Jem, but in fact it is a customized Floral Jem 777FP painted white (hence it’s name, Flo)." http://www.vai.com/Machines/guitarpages/guitar003.html
Definatly, no prototype here...not even a VWH...

4. "Ibanez Jem
Prototype, Serial # 616852


A prototype white Jem. This guitar was later named Evo II, and is used on tour as a backup guitar for Evo." http://www.vai.com/Machines/guitarpages/guitar005.html
Prototype? Why the factory serial number?

Ok...I'll agree that at least one of Steves VWHs was a prototype. It certainly isn't the one he uses now. So I go back to the dead horse and say that Steve plays factory JEM7vwh guitars that he (not Ibanez) modifies to his tastes.

[YaYoGakk]

I wonder if Mr. Pike could help answer any of your questions about flo, flo2, evo, hi-diddly do etc? Either way, this thread is a great read!

[vaijem777]

I've seen a lot of pointless arguments on here, but this one just about takes the cake. Who cares if Steve's JEMs are prototypes or not? Rich Pike would probably know, but why does it matter? Prototype or not, they are NOT stock models due to the massive modifications that have been made to them. Regardless of whether or not they were "off the shelf" VWH's or LACS prototypes, they're made of the same woods and have the same base features.

IF Evo was a "prototype", it still started off as being an essentially identical guitar to the countless JEM7VHW's that are currently hanging on the walls of guitar shops worldwide. Perhaps the pickups were a bit different, assuming that they too were the Evolution prototypes. But...who cares? Why's it matter? NONE of Steve's VWH's can be considered stock by any means, do to the Feiten mod alone.

If the JEM with the serial # of 616852 has a "factory" serial number, please let us know what year it is? Seems to me that that's either a 1961 serial number (impossible for many reasons) or a 1996 serial number, IF it's a "factory" number at all. Not very likely for a guitar which came out in 1993, and which Vai had in 1992. If anything, it's more likely an LACS number, which would make it possible "prototype". I'm fairly sure that EVOII was one of the first few VWH's that Steve received.

Therefore, technically, each and every one of Steve's touring JEMs can be considered "custom" or "one-off". And I'm pretty sure that I recall reading somewhere that Thomas Nordegg installed the Sustainers for Steve, not Hoshino (since Hoshino is just the Ibanez distributor for the majority of the US and doesn't actually handle any artist requests). It's possible that the LACS did this for him, but I doubt it. Plus, Steve's an admitted compulsive tinkerer. He's been known to disassemble and modify his toys on numerous occasions (re: the very first JEM prototype that Ibanez sent him, etc.).

Bottom line: the heated argument is pretty pointless, and comes across as being little more than childish. Mildly amusing? Yes. Worthwhile? Not at all.

[sniperfrommars1]

EVO 2 was given as a gift to one of vais producers. From what I understand, evo is the first true vwh jem ever made. And from what Ive been able to gather it is not a factory jem, but most likely made in one of the japans or j-custom custom shops. Did flo originally have different pickups than evos? My point is, that these key guitars that vai uses and loves were not factory, assembly line guitars.

[pri0531]

I can imagine ibanez workers calling in their co-workers into his office to read this thread. They have got to be rollin' on the ground.
Out,
GP

[vaijem777]

If anything, the original VWH's were made for Steve in the LA Custom Shop, most likely by Jim Donahue. NOT in the J Custom shop in Japan. Why would they waste the time and money making a guitar and then shipping it to Japan when the artist the guitar was for was half an hour from their USA Artist Custom Shop?

[Rich]

JD and Mace Bailey built alot of artist guitars in Bensalem, never at the LACS. Those would have been made by luthiers working at the LACS such as Mike Lipe

[vaijem777]

Ahh...wrong custom shop/luthiers, but same deal I think. Thanks for the good info and clarification Rich!