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  #1  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:20 PM
Andy43  is offline
 
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Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


I searched the board but couldn't find a topic about this. Which sustainer has a better tone with it's turned off? If Vai used the Fernandes, then the fernandes must have a decent tone, as I see Steve using FLO(and MOJO)all the time. Hows the tone on the Sustainiac Stealth plus when turned off?

Thanks, Andy
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:49 PM
Andelusion  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Here you go bud: http://www.harmony-central.com/Effec...th_Plus-1.html
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Old 01-15-2006, 05:14 PM
jimmi  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


I have the Fernandes that I won at Jemfest 2001. I put it in an 80's peavy model that I used to gig with (was a Eddie Van Halen type with 1 pickup and volume control but really nice wood and neck). I had a Duncan in it before and have been fairly pleased with the sound of the pickups. Not really like the EVO's, PAFs or Breeds. Really, the bridge pickup is more like a mix between the stock Gibson humbuckers and the PAFs if I had to describe it...and I like both pickups so there you go.

The neck bickup is more like the minirail humbuckers if you have every heard those. I am very happy with it. The sustainer works great as does the harmonic function. I have been very happy with it.

A note though, the reason I used the guitar I did for this is the large cavity required for the electronic board that you have to squeeze in. There is NO WAY I would put it into a JEM. I only needed a few mm extra for the Peavey so it was not that difficult but a Jem would require substantial routing.
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  #4  
Old 01-15-2006, 11:52 PM
Andy43  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmi
I have the Fernandes that I won at Jemfest 2001. I put it in an 80's peavy model that I used to gig with (was a Eddie Van Halen type with 1 pickup and volume control but really nice wood and neck). I had a Duncan in it before and have been fairly pleased with the sound of the pickups. Not really like the EVO's, PAFs or Breeds. Really, the bridge pickup is more like a mix between the stock Gibson humbuckers and the PAFs if I had to describe it...and I like both pickups so there you go.

The neck bickup is more like the minirail humbuckers if you have every heard those. I am very happy with it. The sustainer works great as does the harmonic function. I have been very happy with it.

A note though, the reason I used the guitar I did for this is the large cavity required for the electronic board that you have to squeeze in. There is NO WAY I would put it into a JEM. I only needed a few mm extra for the Peavey so it was not that difficult but a Jem would require substantial routing.
Thats one of the only things I am worried about. If I routed out all of that wood, it seems like it would change the overall tone of the guitar. Is the Fernandes really that much better for Vai to choose it over the Sustainiac and still have to get rid of all that precious wood?
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Old 01-16-2006, 01:33 AM
highspeedonice  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Alan at Maniac Music just put a Sustainiac in my 77Brmr.
When we discussed what guitar it was going to be installed in, I told him it was a mirrored Jem, he mentioned that he's installed Sustainiacs into two Brmrs sent to him by Ibanez for Steve.

So according to him, Steve has apparently decided to add the Sustainiac to his collection.

Alan was a really great guy to work with. His reputation for great customer service is well deserved.

As for the original question . . . when the Sustainiac is turned off the guitar retains it's tone pretty well as it uses your original pickup rather than the Fernandes one. So whether you're running a Breed, Evo, EMG or whatever your guitar is going to sound like it did before the modification.

Also, the loss of wood due to the routing is pretty minimal. The guitar isn't getting hollowed out or anything. There's just a small spot slightly larger than a 9-volt battery and another little bit under the pickguard. Both areas combined are really just a few ounces. It's not like the guitar will be three pounds lighter or anything after the unit is installed.
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2006, 03:37 AM
Andy43  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by highspeedonice
Alan at Maniac Music just put a Sustainiac in my 77Brmr.
When we discussed what guitar it was going to be installed in, I told him it was a mirrored Jem, he mentioned that he's installed Sustainiacs into two Brmrs sent to him by Ibanez for Steve.

So according to him, Steve has apparently decided to add the Sustainiac to his collection.

Alan was a really great guy to work with. His reputation for great customer service is well deserved.

As for the original question . . . when the Sustainiac is turned off the guitar retains it's tone pretty well as it uses your original pickup rather than the Fernandes one. So whether you're running a Breed, Evo, EMG or whatever your guitar is going to sound like it did before the modification.

Also, the loss of wood due to the routing is pretty minimal. The guitar isn't getting hollowed out or anything. There's just a small spot slightly larger than a 9-volt battery and another little bit under the pickguard. Both areas combined are really just a few ounces. It's not like the guitar will be three pounds lighter or anything after the unit is installed.
It seems it would be that way with the Fernandes, as it routes out a LOT in the back. So when you say it uses your bridge pickup when it's turned off, does that mean it sounds like the same pickup but in the neck position?
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Old 01-16-2006, 05:16 AM
jimmi  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by highspeedonice
Alan at Maniac Music just put a Sustainiac in my 77Brmr.
When we discussed what guitar it was going to be installed in, I told him it was a mirrored Jem, he mentioned that he's installed Sustainiacs into two Brmrs sent to him by Ibanez for Steve.

So according to him, Steve has apparently decided to add the Sustainiac to his collection.

Alan was a really great guy to work with. His reputation for great customer service is well deserved.

As for the original question . . . when the Sustainiac is turned off the guitar retains it's tone pretty well as it uses your original pickup rather than the Fernandes one. So whether you're running a Breed, Evo, EMG or whatever your guitar is going to sound like it did before the modification.

Also, the loss of wood due to the routing is pretty minimal. The guitar isn't getting hollowed out or anything. There's just a small spot slightly larger than a 9-volt battery and another little bit under the pickguard. Both areas combined are really just a few ounces. It's not like the guitar will be three pounds lighter or anything after the unit is installed.
The sustainer that I have came with its own pickups. I might have been able to use a different bridge pickup but not the neck pickup as that is the one that generates the effect. Steve's have a "dummy" coil next to the single coil size pickup at the neck but unless they have come up with a different design, it is not an Ibanez of any sort.

THe routing is for the board that the electronics come on. While I don't think it would effect tone, it just made me too nervous to do it. I used a guitar that already had a fairly large space for the volume and tone pots and needed very little addition room. Really, it is an issue of a square board needing to go into a triangular hole. I actually thought about it for several guitars I had and investigated purchasing another one that just had humbucker with 2 single coils (I did not like the idea of a dummy coil) but settled on the peavy that had only one pickup and had a space routed out for the other one.

This actually brings up anothe issue, The pickups have to be at a specific distance from each other for the effect to work...So make sure you do the measurements. Too close or too far and it may work but not as well.

Actually I am glad I did it the way I did. I hardly played the Peavy until I put the sustainer in it (which is a shame because it has a great neck on it). Now I play it more often and my JEMS are still untouched

Last edited by jimmi; 01-16-2006 at 05:21 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2006, 10:07 AM
highspeedonice  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy43
It seems it would be that way with the Fernandes, as it routes out a LOT in the back. So when you say it uses your bridge pickup when it's turned off, does that mean it sounds like the same pickup but in the neck position?
In the neck position, the Sustainiac driver acts as the pickup. Honestly though, as little as I use the neck pickup, I think it sounds fine. The Fernandes driver is incapable of acting as a pickup, so you'd either have to lose the use of a neck pickup completely or else add a single coil of your choice neck to the driver. It could be another hundred dollar expense to go that way.

Jimmi, good point about the routing for the circuit board of the Fernandes. That was another thing about that unit that I found rather unappealing. Mainly because I was a little spooked about drilling holes through the mirrored top of my guitar for the mini toggles and didn't want to be bothered making a back plate for the additional cavity. So if losing wood is a big issue for anyone out there considering this mod, then you have to consider that the Fernandes requires more routing and a little more B.S. than the Sustainiac.

Also worth noting for those on the fence, the mini toggles of the Sustainiac aren't attached to the circuit board and the board itself is significantly smaller than the Fernandes, thus making it much easier to conceal in the guitar without the additional trauma of adding yet another cavity.
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2006, 10:09 AM
Jeroenn  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by highspeedonice
In the neck position, the Sustainiac driver acts as the pickup. Honestly though, as little as I use the neck pickup, I think it sounds fine. The Fernandes driver is incapable of acting as a pickup, so you'd either have to lose the use of a neck pickup completely or else add a single coil of your choice neck to the driver.
Incorrect. I own a fernandes, and it works as a pickup (a good sounding one at it too).

J
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2006, 10:25 AM
highspeedonice  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroenn
Incorrect. I own a fernandes, and it works as a pickup (a good sounding one at it too).

J
Ahh, ok . . . that's good to know. When I was researching my purchase, I ran across something that said that you could add a single-coil pickup next to the driver and I could've sworn that it said something about the Fernandes driver not functioning as a pickup. This was back in November and apparently my memory had slipped some since then. I appreciate the heads-up and apologize for my mistake. I stand corrected. Thank you sir!
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2006, 04:44 PM
Andy43  is offline
 
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


So can either one of you tell me what the Sustainiac/Sustainer sounds like when turned off? I really like the sound of my PAF pro neck, so I think I'll go with the sustainer that sounds closest to that.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2006, 05:22 PM
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy43
So can either one of you tell me what the Sustainiac/Sustainer sounds like when turned off? I really like the sound of my PAF pro neck, so I think I'll go with the sustainer that sounds closest to that.
Alan said it sounds like a good high output HB, and it does, great tone, you can adjust the output on the board to match your bridge pickup. I have the sustainiac Stealth plus installed on my rg2550ex.

By the way, i think steve uses fernandes sustainers live because he gets paid for it, but he must know for sure sustainiac is better.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2006, 05:44 PM
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Heres a video I have with the Fernades Sustainer... which driver works on all positions, I think in the example driver is on in bridge position, but it also sound good in neck position. Aslo as mentioned above, it works as a regular neck pickup also.

http://www.bluealien.net/video/nat.htm

Enjoy:
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2006, 07:05 PM
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


It sounds like they both get the job done. I guess I'll go with the Fernandes.
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2006, 02:41 PM
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Re: Sustainer vs. Sustainiac when Disengaged


Just to let you know, you will have to route out alot more wood for the Board on the Fernendes then you would for the Sustainiac. So you should plan this carfully.



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Tags
bridge pickup, bridge position, coil pickup, eddie van halen, fernandes sustainer, mini toggle, neck pickup, neck position, paf pro, paf pro neck, pro neck, sustainiac stealth plus, van halen


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