There's A HARDTAIL Jem Coming [2009 JEM7EAFX see post #73] - Page 24

Clonetool · #**346** 01-06-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Robb

Ibanez Xing 2010

A very innovative guitar from Ibanez.

I've been hearing tracking issues with the xing tho. It's amazing nothing can touch the Syntaxe and that can barely be called a guitar. Or recent.

**elcid** · #**347** 01-06-2009, 07:30 PM

Holy sht, Someone actually agreed with me. I didn't expect that. I know where I am posting and I know that if Ibanez made a guitar that would anally rape your mother everyone here would go crazy for it as long as it was pink and had a maple fretboard.

The second Ibanez comes out with something that completely revolutionizes the electric guitar like Leo Fender and Ted McCarthy did, or the second people start talking about trying to get "that classic Ibanez sound" they are welcome to the innovative club. Until then They make guitars using Leo Fenders shape, control layout and no less than three of his pick up configurations to try to get sounds he came up with, while using the other 2 positions to give you what Dimarzio would call "a paf sound with hotter output". They don't offer anything else that 50 other guitar makers can't give you, except a handle.

Say all you want about Fender and Gibson not innovating anything in 50 years, they are still the yardstick every company measures themselves by and are directly responsible for the tones every guitar company tries to emulate.

Rich · #**348** 01-06-2009, 07:37 PM

Arguing with Cid is like arguing with your wife. He'll never admit he's wrong, and you'll never get another hummer until you tell him he's right.

Clonetool · #**349** 01-06-2009, 07:40 PM

That classic Ibanez sound? Ever hear of the TS-808? Besides I think we determined "tone" is 90 percent amp and effects so this whole discussion is moot. Hardtail still sucks.

Lefty Robb · #**350** 01-06-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clonetool

I've been hearing tracking issues with the xing tho. It's amazing nothing can touch the Syntaxe and that can barely be called a guitar. Or recent.

the Syntaxe is about as much a guitar as a Guitar hero controller is. The only issue with the Xing is its now defunct output pins, which if you don't use correctly I believe there are issues with it (i.e. pin converters), but if you have the whole origional setup, its amazing from everything I've read and heard and the tracking is phenomenal.

GuitarBizarre · #**351** 01-06-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcid

Holy sht, Someone actually agreed with me. I didn't expect that. I know where I am posting and I know that if Ibanez made a guitar that would anally rape your mother everyone here would go crazy for it as long as it was pink and had a maple fretboard.

The second Ibanez comes out with something that completely revolutionizes the electric guitar like Leo Fender and Ted McCarthy did, or the second people start talking about trying to get "that classic Ibanez sound" they are welcome to the innovative club. Until then They make guitars using Leo Fenders shape, control layout and no less than three of his pick up configurations to try to get sounds he came up with, while using the other 2 positions to give you what Dimarzio would call "a paf sound with hotter output". They don't offer anything else that 50 other guitar makers can't give you, except a handle.

Say all you want about Fender and Gibson not innovating anything in 50 years, they are still the yardstick every company measures themselves by and are directly responsible for the tones every guitar company tries to emulate.

To revolutionize the electric guitar in the same way leo fender did, would be tantamount to creating an entirely new instrument. Leo didn't revolutionize the electric guitar, he introduced it. Before that, it only existed as a homebrew invention.

Secondly, You are STILL misrepresenting what the word 'innovative' actually means. It does NOT mean 'revolutionize' or 'blow away the prior works'. It means to introduce something, anything, anything at all, that is NEW. I've listed plenty of stuff that fits that bill. Now if you had said 'Ibanez are not a legendary guitar company' then all your points would be valid. They aren't. They're very good, and are rightly highly regarded, but they are NOT legendary. They ARE however, innovative, according to the definition of the word, and also when compared to almost any direct competitor.
Also, I don't believe every guitar company does try to emulate those tones. Certainly most do, but if every company did that we'd be stuck in a musical progression standoff between technology and artistry. Nobody can deny that any artist who has ever used a floyd rose to its full capacity, is not achieving a 'Gibson or fender sound'.

In fact, your logic even in the beginning of this argument is just flawed. If we follow your logic to its reasonable conclusion, we can determine that technically everybody is ripping off the first instance of early man tying a string between two points and plucking it. The lute? Total ripoff. Violin too, cello, double bass, elecrtic bass. Hey, if we're talking plucked strings, we may as well say leo fender ripped off the goddamn harpsichord. I mean hey, they're based on the same principles, a string attached to a soundboard by means of a bridge and a tuning peg, is plucked by a hard object made with a thin edge!

And the sitar has a reasonably thin sound, like a harpsichord, so hey, thats ripping it off too, or the other way around! And the 12 string acoustic guitar? Totally ripping off the lute AND the harpsichord by having strings arranged in courses and tuned in octaves or unison! Leo fenders bridge is made out of metal, he's CLEARLY ripping off the innovation that gave us cast iron frames on pianos, and frets on acoustic guitars! and the whole kit and kaboodle is absolutely 100% stealing from zithers and dulcimers!

Acoustic guitars are hollow? Jesus christ man, thats totally ripping off the Mbira and the Kalimba. Which in turn are ripping off drums, which are also hollow. And hey, you HIT drums, so drums are ripping off early man's first attempt at clapping, or hitting things with sticks!

JESUS GOD ELCID, WHERE DOES THE PLAGIARISM MADNESS END? ALL THIS TIME WE THOUGHT INNOVATION WAS PROGRESS OF ANY KIND!

YOUR NEW DEFINITION OF THE WORD INNOVATION MEANING REVOLUTIONARY PROGRESS IS THE ONLY TRUE INNOVATION, HAS UNRAVELLED A WEB OF LIES STRETCHING BACK TO PREHISTORY! IMAGINE THE COPYRIGHT SUITS! INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ON INSTRUMENT DESIGNS IS A SHAM! A FILTHY SHAM! IT CAN'T HAVE EVER HAPPENED! ITS A CONSPIRACY! THE PATENT OFFICE WAS SET UP TO COVER THIS FACT UP AND MAKE US THINK THINGS WERE ALL REVOLUTIONARY AND NEW BY IMPLYING ABSOLUTE UNIQUENESS! MY GOD! MUSICAL INSTRUMENT MANUFACTURERS SHOULD ALL BE PAYING ROYALTIES TO THE MOST PURE BLOODED DESCENDANT OF AN EARLY MAN WHOSE NAME PAST HISTORY AND IDENTITY ARE COMPELTELY UNKNOWN! HE MUST BE OWED MILLIONS! BILLIONS! WAIT TILL THE LAYWERS GET A HOLD OF THIS AND TRY AND PROVE SOMEONE ELSE DID IT BEFORE HE DID! THE COURT CASES! THE TRIALS! THE TRIBULATIONS!

OH THE HUMANITY! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALLL TO HELLLLL!!!!!

GuitarBizarre · #**352** 01-06-2009, 08:09 PM

I believe I have made my point suitably clear, although please tell me if you think i've left any room for misinterpretation of my opinion of elcids INSANE argument. Thankyou.

Lefty Robb · #**353** 01-06-2009, 08:16 PM

GuitarBizarre · #**354** 01-06-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Robb

I love the way I can craft a post like that and take the time and effort to build it up into a ranting crescendo of madness with the intention of highlighting a point and simultaneously creating a compelling read, only to have the attempt be met simply with a stoic repost masquerading as a fine rebuttal in the absence of any actual effort or indeed wit from the poster concerned.

On topic or not, I belive that this digression was a perfectly natural thing and that enforcing a topics strict adherence to one subject only, only causes premature stagnation of otherwise perfectly valid discourse. If we had gone off on a wild tangent instantly, then sure, thats off topic, but this discussion came to this point as the result of logical and reasonably well thought out developments in the conversation and as such could quite concievably still be of some positive merit. Or at the very least it could not be met with the thread police attempting to force us to cease our debate on the basis that they don't agree with our right to do so.

Of course, this post will probably be met with a similar response and I'll probably recieve another infraction for daring to criticise the established forum heirarchy, but hey, whatever. I just want Elcid to realize that his argument is in fact based on 'Turtles all the way down.'

Splinter8451 · #**355** 01-06-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Robb

+1

I agree with this ^

I think if someone went through and cleaned this topic back into only "on topic" posts, it would be half as big as it is now.

This thing is getting out of hand...

zar7 · #**356** 01-06-2009, 08:35 PM

OK, I've got to admit that I've been obsessively checking on this thread at least a couple of times a day for what is the most lively discussion on this forum in quite some time. One thing is for sure, there is a core group of contributors on this site that are very passionate about their music, their guitars and yes, their opinions. I for one think it's great. Better than being a dispassionate air-waster. Mr. Vai may not have given many of us what we wanted (myself included), but I dare say it has provoked a strong response. Maybe Ibanez wanted the hardtail for sales and he could have cared less about it. He'll probably do the obligatory one song on stage with it like he did the 20th and the BRMR before that. I've seen him in concert in 93, 98 and 07 and EVO was his main guitar all three times, so to me at least, the 7VWH will remain his "signature" guitar. Everything else is for sales.

C.Thep · #**357** 01-06-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

To revolutionize the electric guitar in the same way leo fender did, would be tantamount to creating..... MILLIONS! BILLIONS! WAIT TILL THE LAYWERS GET A HOLD OF THIS AND TRY AND PROVE SOMEONE ELSE DID IT BEFORE HE DID! THE COURT CASES! THE TRIALS! THE TRIBULATIONS!

wonderful post!

JM5150 · #**358** 01-06-2009, 10:17 PM

man, that new JEM hardtail is ugly.....

TAorama · #**359** 01-06-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM5150

man, that new JEM hardtail is ugly.....

Well put.

mike570 · #**360** 01-06-2009, 11:18 PM

Ay Dios mio!

I agree with Elcid; Fender did give us the wonderful gift of the Stratocaster. But, like, who was the guy that invented shoes? You could say there are many various brands these days, and some, like Nike or Converse, make different brands that one person might prefer over another. I personally like a low-top pair of Vans.
Innovation beyond the initial introduction of the Startocaster is mere refinement.
The Iceman, and lots of the X line, are the best examples of Ibanez innovation. The Xyphos too. The RG is a souped up Strat.
We're not sure who made the first car, but the Japanese now make it better.

Getting back on track, considering the stability of fixed bridges, the hardtail Jem is definitely overdue. This one might be crap to some people, but maybe the next version will be better or more asthetically appealing.