International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated - Jemsite
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post #1 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

Not sure which forum to put this in, it could have gone in several, but I'll stick with this one. One read and you'll be able to tell, this could get, bad.

https://www.namm.org/issues-and-advo...od-and-bubinga
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post #2 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 10:29 PM
 
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

I take it this includes all instruments that happen to have a protected wood as part of their make up regardless of WHEN it was made, i.e. not just anything produced from 2nd Jan 2017 onwards? Also, I imagine that if you picked up a sweet deal on a guitar with protected wood while travelling and brought it back without declaring it you could be in pretty hot water - hotter than usual anyway? Yikes...
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post #3 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

From what I've heard the government isn't even sure of how this is going to work. But I'd expect a clusterf*ck until it gets figured out, and only guitars with maple fretboard and no bubinga stripes will be "easy".

How can you tell what species of anything you have? If this gets like the current ivory trade where you have to pay an expert $1000 to verify what type of elephant it came from and what age it is, it's going to get very messy very quickly.
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post #4 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 12:03 AM
 
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

Very stupid they are trying to push this out so quickly with no real heads up.
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post #5 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 01:54 AM
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

I have looked into CITES issues in a professional capacity for one of the big names a while ago. I am expecting all guitars to increase in price and, if this is actually enforced (like we saw the Lacey act being enforced) international deals to take ages.
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post #6 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 08:36 AM
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

Worldwide bureaucracy right on cue. But long term do any of us really expect "endangered species" woods to be available for mass-market products? These trees grow too slowly
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post #7 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 02:45 AM
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

Hmm, I've a custom build sat ready to ship from Canada, better get it out of there pre-Jan 2nd just in case.
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post #8 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-18-2016, 11:32 AM
 
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

I would imagine that a single custom build would move along without issues. I've read through the Lacey Act a bit and there seems to be a carve out for private parties. Seemed more geared towards large companies.
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post #9 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-19-2016, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

New Rosewood Trade Restrictions Challenge Industry

THE CONVENTION on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) has issued tough new restrictions on the import and export of all 300 species of Dalbergia, a wood widely used in guitar construction, better known by its common name, rosewood. Set to be formalized early in 2017, the new rules require guitar makers to document where, when, and how imported rosewood logs and boards were procured, and to provide similar documentation to secure export permits for finished rosewood guitars.

Widespread concern that the tropical hardwood was being harvested to the point of extinction, primarily to supply a burgeoning Chinese furniture industry, prompted CITES to take action. The officials placed regulations on all rosewood species, because unscrupulous loggers had exploited the fact that rosewood species are difficult to differentiate, passing off illegally cut wood as a previously unprotected species.

CITES restrictions on woods are nothing new for the guitar industry. Since 1992, Brazilian rosewood has been listed under the CITES "appendix 1," which bans all global trade. Guitar makers who build and export instruments with Brazilian rosewood are required to document that the wood was cut prior to the 1992 ban. Big leaf mahogany, another wood widely used in guitar construction, is listed under the less restrictive CITES 2 appendix, which requires guitar makers to document that the imported logs and boards were procured according to global regulations, but does not require documentation for finished guitars.

What makes the new rosewood regulations challenging is the documentation on finished instruments. Better than half of all acoustic guitars traversing national borders--millions of units annually--now must be accompanied by paperwork that details the quantity of rosewood used, measured in cubic meters, and the complete chain of custody of the wood, from the time the log was cut until it left the production line.

Actual enforcement of CITES rules is left up to individual countries, and in the U.S., the Department of Fish and Wildlife is charged with implementing them. Colesanti has been meeting with Fish and Wildlife representatives in what he says is a "collaborative, problem solving" atmosphere. He's hoping that they can arrive at rules that protect rosewood forests without overburdening guitar makers. "It's a long process," he says.
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post #10 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 02:59 PM
 
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

So what will happen with used instruments? It looks like it would become more difficult to move used guitars across borders...
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post #11 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 10:15 PM
 
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzedout View Post
So what will happen with used instruments? It looks like it would become more difficult to move used guitars across borders...
+1

curious to know.
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post #12 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

I'm going to take a stab that it's going to be up to the receiving country and how they are interpreting the "terminology" of the agreement. I have no doubt something is going to get confiscated somewhere and we'll start hearing about it. Best case, I would hope it 's an added permit fee the shippers will handle, paperwork as part of the "logistics solutions" just like they have for exports over $2500.
Worst case Jan 2 everybody flying into LaGuardia with a rosewood fretboard guitar is going to have it confiscated. Containers full of furniture and guitars are going to be confiscated and destroyed and it will end up being the Lacey act to the next level here in the US. What happens in your country may and will probably be different, but your country is part of the member states, there are 183 of them

https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/parties/chronolo.php
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post #13 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-20-2016, 11:10 PM
 
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

Indonesia is main exporter for local rosewood called 'sonokeling'.
the rosewood you seen in the premium ( or many other guitars) is indeed the species of sonokeling.
I'm not sure how the industry acts accordingly to this new regulation, but pretty much sure price is going to increase at consumer's end.

so now my main concern is, let say I'm buying an used USAC from US, shipped it here, do the shipper must provide certification for it?
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post #14 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 09:04 AM
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, might just buy something sooner rather than later because of the vagueness of the whole thing. And while it strikes me as well intentioned, it definitely has a "measure with a micrometer, mark in chalk and cut with an axe" feel to it.
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post #15 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 09:19 AM
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Re: International guitar deals are about to get much more complicated

LOL Jim.

psychoshredder - is that grown in plantations typically or cut from whatever plots of land are sold to harvesters?

one good thing about this law is that more voters will open their eyes to consider what England and USA just did and maybe revolt against government regulations/intrusions that don't meaningfully have solutions to effect change for their population.
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