J-Custom & Prestige confusion - What makes a J-C a J-C?

[eelblack2]

+1 on the fret ends, and fingerboard edges being different. I can feel the differences running my hand down the edge of my 20051 neck vs the HRG4-BX

[Rich]

Not just different but vastly different, The difference between a full ball fret end and a hedge of fret edge radiusing, and the difference between a full fretboard edge radius to the bare edging you get on Prestige [granted, some better than others for sure] is the difference in at least 1 hour of time and many years experience.

[Ibanez-Mag]

Originally Posted by Rich

You're saying that on a current JC you noticed no difference in the fret end and fretboard edge radiusing? If you don't then you got one bad JC [and I find that hard to believe].

All current JC's are inset knob, goes back a couple years, I think it started around 2000 or 2001. The JCAANJ has been there since at least 97' [going from memory, don't shoot me if I'm off by a year or 2].

No, I’m not saying that.
The whole neck feels different on a J-Custom, a bit thicker, maybe even a little different shape. But necks are different on Prestige too.

I can’t really say if the fretboard edges are different, I don’t remember since I change that and sand them down a bit on all my guitars. But my experience with that is that it varies from every specific guitar, sometimes is it done so good that I don’t have to do anything, sometimes does it feel (and look) like it haven’t been done at all, on the same model Prestige.

Can’t really say if the frets are dressed differently either because the ones I have has been re-freted several times.

But anyway, the fret dressing are not really guitar quality difference in my eyes, it is cosmetic difference, same with fancy inlays and stuff like that. I mean, it is noting that affects the performance of the guitar, making it better or worse in anyway (a bad fret job does, but expensive Prestige models don’t have bad fret jobs).
And since the weather is the way it is here in Sweden do you normally have to shine up the frets a bit on a new guitar anyway.
Maybe you can call it better craftsmanship, but for me, since it doesn’t make the guitar any better, do I look at it as if someone has spent more time on it, and time to get a higher cosmetic level, not time to get a higher guitar quality difference.

If the fretboard ends are different, then that is something I would call a quality difference that is for playing, comfort.

I know that it might not be a traditional way to look at it, and I know that all the cosmetic things (like the insert knob, fancy inlays and so on) are things that take time and cost money, and in many ways are looked at as quality measurements on a guitar.
And I guess it is, but for me only cosmetically differences.
What I mean is that you can shine and dress the frets great on a crap guitar, but it is still a crap guitar (not meaning that J-customs a crap guitars).

So to keep it short (hmmm, to late for that already), for me quality on a instrument are the wood, how the wood is cut and putt together, all the things that affects how the guitar sounds and feels to play, and how well they can take being played a lot.
And in that respect have I not noticed any difference between J-Custom and the more expensive Prestige.

I will investigate this further, try to get my hands on more J-customs and compare some more. I have only played, maybe around 20, so I need more experience to really know.
I guess that around 20 guitars really aren’t enough to build an opinion on; I should have been quiet :-)

EDIT: Just want to say that I'm not saying that there are no quality differences just that I haven’t noticed any sound or playing differences.

/Magnus

[Rich]

20 is definitely not enough, if you're not paying any attention to the craftsmanship I'm referring to

Any 1 single current [2002 on] unmolested JC will stand on it's merits if you critically inspect the work. Are they perfect guitars? Hell no. Are the nuts too high, the bridges need radiusing, can most benefit from a fret level, are the neck pockets imperfect, etc?? Of course. But quality wise they'll smoke any Prestige.

[Ibanez-Mag]

Originally Posted by Rich

20 is definitely not enough, if you're not paying any attention to the craftsmanship I'm referring to

Any 1 single current [2002 on] unmolested JC will stand on it's merits if you critically inspect the work. Are they perfect guitars? Hell no. Are the nuts too high, the bridges need radiusing, can most benefit from a fret level, are the neck pockets imperfect, etc?? Of course. But quality wise they'll smoke any Prestige.

No, you are right, 20 or so are not enough to make build an opinion on something.
I should shut up! :-)
And I should not argue with you, I know you have seen more J-Customs then I have seen guitars :-)
I guess you can say that the craftsmanship as far as attention to details are better on a J-C.

It is true that I don’t really look or care for many of the small, what I call cosmetically, things.
I basically just care for how it sounds, and then second to that, how it plays.
I have my action really high and have never, not that I can remember, really seen an Ibanez were I wanted to lower the nut, but many times the other way, get it higher, as high as can without screwing up the intonation.

Basically all I do with a new guitar is cleaning up/fixing the neck pocket, sand down and round of the fretboard edges (not always needed), sand away any sign of finish on the back of the neck (and oil it), make my action the way I want it, intonate and that’s it.
But I have the luxury of always get a chance to chose a good copy of the model I get, and maybe I would look differently on it if I had to get “just the one hanging in the shop”?
But I never have a problem with the one I play at clincs either, just change to thicker strings and raise the action and they are fine.

By the way, Rich. If you don’t mind me asking you, what do you think is a reasonable price for a never really played AT100? What is the common value on those?
You can answer in a message or mail if you want.

/Magnus

[Rich]

I was just playing about the 20 not being enough, 1 is all it takes, but you've already stated

Originally Posted by Ibanez-Mag

If the fretboard ends are different, then that is something I would call a quality difference that is for playing, comfort.

Add the radiusing of the edge which is purely for neck feel, and you've got to give a little that by your definition that is higher quality

[Ibanez-Mag]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was just playing about the 20 not being enough, 1 is all it takes, but you've already stated

Add the radiusing of the edge which is purely for neck feel, and you've got to give a little that by your definition that is higher quality

I do give a little; they seem to have higher craftsmanship and attention to details.
But not really in the most important part, how the guitar sound, or do any of you guys feel that the average J-C sound better the average Prestige?

Well, anyway, I love them all.

/Magnus

[nikt]

Originally Posted by Rich

The JCAANJ has been there since at least 97' [going from memory, don't shoot me if I'm off by a year or 2].

7cst has the "old" AANJ. and it was produced in 99' so it must be after that date!

And comparing this guitar to RG2077XL that I had there is big diffrience in quality and details.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by nikt

7cst has the "old" AANJ. and it was produced in 99' so it must be after that date!

And comparing this guitar to RG2077XL that I had there is big diffrience in quality and details.

Are you positive? I have a 99' Texas Special here and it's definitely JCAANJ. [then again maybe they only had it in the 6 string body CNC program at that time]

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ibanez-Mag

I do give a little; they seem to have higher craftsmanship and attention to details.
But not really in the most important part, how the guitar sound, or do any of you guys feel that the average J-C sound better the average Prestige?

Well, anyway, I love them all.

/Magnus

I have never equated quality with tone. In an acoustic guitar or jazzbox, yes, I think you can make that distinction, that the craftsmanship and the design are great contributors to the overall tone. I don't think you can say the same of an electric. With an electric of the same shape it just comes down to wood and pickups.

[nikt]

Originally Posted by Rich

Are you positive? I have a 99' Texas Special here and it's definitely JCAANJ. [then again maybe they only had it in the 6 string body CNC program at that time]

Don't know about other J-customs but I'm sure about the 7cst as I own one now.

[Rich]

OK, well 6's definitely were by 99'

[Ibanez-Mag]

Originally Posted by Rich

I have never equated quality with tone. In an acoustic guitar or jazzbox, yes, I think you can make that distinction, that the craftsmanship and the design are great contributors to the overall tone. I don't think you can say the same of an electric. With an electric of the same shape it just comes down to wood and pickups.

I defiantly feel that you can tell a quality difference in sound on an electric guitar, base on the craftsmanship. Give the same parts and pickups to one guy who don’t know a lot and to one very qualified guitar builder and the guitars will be miles apart in every way, sound and playability. In that respect have I not noticed any consistent difference between J-C and Prestige, witch was my main point in the first place (just said very badly).

I agree that it is even more noticeable on acoustics and jazz guitars, but defiantly on electrics too. I have seen it happen several times, I left one of my strats to a “healer” guy here in Sweden and it came back, all the same parts, noting was change, but the guitar sounded better.
Cleaning neck pockets, make the neck pocket flat and with the optimal angle for that specific guitar (getting maximum connection between neck and body), the angle the strings have over the saddles and the nut and so on.

But for me is the most important quality on a guitar the wood itself (everything ells can be fixed), the pickups and the parts are a big point too.


/Magnus

[Rich]

Don't get all Eric Johnson on us now

[Ibanez-Mag]

Originally Posted by Rich

Don't get all Eric Johnson on us now

I promise.

/Magnus