J-Custom & Prestige confusion - What makes a J-C a J-C?

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by vaijem777

My guess (ONLY a guess!) is that the main difference between the Prestige/Signature lines and the J Customs is going to be the details:

-Perhaps there are a few more "finishing touches" (i.e. extra neck work)done to the J Customs
-Higher quality (for the most part) woods
-A wider range of wood choices
-More/Different pickup options
-More/Different finishes
-More/Different inlay options & materials
-More/Different hardware finishes/options
-Smaller production batches
-Special production features not found on other Prestige/Signature models:
-the etched/stained design on the ART
-the gears on the GEAR
-the lacquered wood cavity covers on the ARCH
-the insanely intricate & intense etching/inlay/finish work on the EGYPT
-custom graphics like the RG-USA1
-foil finish like the RG-GOLD

Just special things that go above and beyond that which creates a standard production model. In my opinion (OPINION ONLY!) that is what really sets the J Customs apart from the Prestige and signature models. Basically, something that you can't walk into a Guitar Center and see up on the wall! Something unique...out of the ordinary. I honestly don't give the latest run of J Customs much more credit than the Prestige line. Most of the current models that are available in Japan really don't have any features that make them stand out. There ARE more options, etc. available, but long gone are the interesting designs of the GEAR, ART & ARCH. I honestly don't know if the production process is any different for the J Customs and the other lines, but I am inclined to believe Jay when he states that there ARE differences. All I know is that my J Customs play and look WAY better than any Prestige or Signature model that I've had (but then, maybe I've just been lucky?).

Good points Chris. Putting the "better wood" debate aside (as none of ibanez' woods will win awards)... the rest of this list is 100% ornamentation, decoration or aftermarket parts. Pickup choices hardly qualify as an update in context of this discussion.

For example, it is obvious that an RG-GOLD and JEM77PMC require more "steps" than their respective RG7CST or UV7PWH counterpart

"Play better" is a term that is too subjective to be anything more than personal likes/dislikes... our personal preferences in neck profiles, wood choices etc. is 100% independant of the build quality and tollerances of these instruments ...glen

[Rich]

To be specific, there are only 2 differences I've ever noticed on a JC, the fret end finishing is marginally better (depending on the List price some are quite a bit better) and extra rounding of the board edges for that broken in feel. No other differences have I ever noted. The same QC blems and misques I've seen on Jems and Prestige I have definately seen on JC's too, and I'm talking $3000 JC's, not your bottom line models. Loose neck pockets, discrepencies in trem routs, dirt under the clear. I've never seen any notable differene in wood quality, or hardware, none whatsoever. In fact the Gear I had last year has a very light rosewood board. The fit in all the 'gear' puzzle pieces left a little to be desired, there was alot of router chipping in these pieces, etc. Cool guitar, but flawless? No chance. Kevans has the same router chipping and 'fit' (but is still Mint). The RG1680x I just shipped had very nice fret end finishing, much better than a 3120. Iain's RG4 has the same thing. That I'm not disagreeing you do get, what I do disagree with is that they're the best quality, as I've seen perfect Jems, and not near as perfect JC's. QC is on a per guitar basis, and some are undeniably better than others.

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by jemsite

Kev if you want to debate, please exercise independant thought after reading replies... instead of simply RECITING...glen

What in the bluehell are you talking about?
Can someone please tell me what he's talking about?

...the "six-step neck" (ie. marketing lingo) is...

That's marketing lingo? I thought it was a physical process. Call me kooky....

Rich- the GEAR's aren't routed; they're cut with a laser. Try that type of cut and inlay with a regular router, you'll get 10x the gaps.

[vaijem777]

I'm certainly not going to argue the subjectivity of playability and looks. The "driftwood" tops that have been discussed in other threads have taken the wind out of that argument. To me personally, J Customs are personified by the original 1997 models: ART, ARCH, METAL, GEAR, S540Japan. Those are the models that REALLY set the J Customs apart from any other production model.

Again, my point was that the biggest CURRENT differences between J Customs and the other models is most likely due to the "details": cosmetic differences, etc. Although, even from playing the most recent release of J Customs (the 3 models from last year), I'm convinced that there are DEFINITELY differences in finishing, etc. Out of the box, each of the 3 models released last year played MUCH better than any other Prestige or Signature model. I was lucky enough to be present when my favorite local store unpacked them, along with a VWH and a couple of RG3120s. It's still hard to have a dead-on, fact-filled opinion though without having access to the full line of J Customs though.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevan

Riddle me this, Batman:
According to *YOU*, the Prestiges are simply re-labeled J-Customs.
Show us an RG-9570 (in either color), or an S9870-CRS, with "Prestige" on the headstock.
Conversely, show us a 3120 with "J-Custom" on the headstock.

I'm hoping this will shut you up once and for all, but then I might as well ask to be the King of England!

Conversely, show us a 3120 with "J-Custom" on the headstock

OK, you tell me what YOU see, color aside, same pickups, TZ, PAF Pro.

[TheJazzTerminator]

Originally Posted by Rich

My computer monitor is being somewhat of a bitch, but that guitar is black, correct?

Either way, I just wanted to say, in reply to this "show me an RG3120 with a J. Custom headstock" debate .... the guitar in this picture could be a one-off type of thing that Ibanez made for a particular store or a limited edition type of thing.

As I posted a couple of weeks ago, I have a black RG3120 that was only made for Guitar Center in Texas back in 1999. I believe there were only ten or fifteen of them made, so they weren't shown in catalogs and you couldn't go order them through just any Ibanez dealer.

I'm not saying that IS the case with the guitar Rich posted because I don't know anything about the guitar, but, if it's true, then it might support Kevan's argument that you'll never find an RG3120 with a J. Custom because, what's really important, is whether they sold them as regular production models, not as one-off, limited edition models.

[Myrkrid]

Originally Posted by TheJazzTerminator

My computer monitor is being somewhat of a bitch, but that guitar is black, correct?
...

Methinks that's a JCRG 1702, from 1998. I have a similiar one. The color is indeed "black", called SLK (Silky Black). But if you ask me, or anyone else, I would say its more green than black. I've compared pics taken from 1702s in the internet, and they are all more or less green. Doesn't matter, because its still a great guitar, best I've ever owned or played.

Compare to mine (crappy pic taken with my cellphone, sorry):



Hmm. To that "pre-2000s suck" -conversation: Some people even think, that the older ones are better than the ones from 2000+. I haven't played any other JC than the 1702 I have, so I can't compare it to JCs made later. But its still much better to play than my friends' ESPs (Horizons, M-IIs) and such.

[bduersch]

Originally Posted by Rich

The RG1680x I just shipped had very nice fret end finishing, much better than a 3120.

Hell, yeah! That's what I like to hear!

--B

[Kevan]

Rich- it looks a lot like a 3120, save for the color (no green 3120's that I know of) and the pickups (JC's tend to have AN/TZ combinations, and that looks like TZ/AN).
The headstock tells us all we need to know: it's a J-Custom. End of debate.

Glen- look, you're in a HUGE hole here. Instead of digging further, or trying to wiggle out of it, just admit that you were wrong, apologize, and we can move on.
It's not like I'm asking for my Mod. status back or anything...

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by Kevan

Rich- it looks a lot like a 3120, save for the color (no green 3120's that I know of) and the pickups (JC's tend to have AN/TZ combinations, and that looks like TZ/AN).
The headstock tells us all we need to know: it's a J-Custom. End of debate.

Glen- look, you're in a HUGE hole here. Instead of digging further, or trying to wiggle out of it, just admit that you were wrong, apologize, and we can move on.

GIVE IT A REST ALREADY!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevan

Rich- it looks a lot like a 3120, save for the color (no green 3120's that I know of) and the pickups (JC's tend to have AN/TZ combinations, and that looks like TZ/AN).
The headstock tells us all we need to know: it's a J-Custom. End of debate.

Sorry, I was under the impression you asked to see a 3120 that said J Custom on the headstock, and when you get right down to it, 1 different pickup and different color doesn't change what you're looking at, A 3120 THAT SAYS J CUSTOM ON THE HEAD!!!

[bduersch]

As much as I hate to say this...

Personally, in regards to QC, playability, tone, wood choice, etc., I have yet to see any significant difference between J-Customs and Prestiges. And I can back this statement, I've had my fair share of both J-Customs (RG6CST, RG1880, RG-ART, soon to come RG1680x) and Prestiges (two RG3120's, RGT3120, RG2020x, RG7CT). While the J-Customs have had something unique that sets them apart from the Prestiges (the piezos on the CST at the time, the flame maple binding/5 piece neck on the 1880, the hand-painted finish on the ART), most Prestiges & J-Customs feel basically the same, look like basically the same, and sound basically the same to me.

That said, why do I even bother with J-Customs? Two reasons. One, there are the little things that set some J-Custom models apart. There is no RG-ART Prestige with a hand-painted top. There are no Prestige models with 5-piece maple-bound necks. Heck, for a long time there were no Prestige models with piezo pickups. Second, I like the variety: Ibanez doesn't crank out enough mahogany Prestige models to keep me occupied... I like to have guitars with lots of different pickup configurations and finishes, and the J-Customs provide that variety I'm looking for. Would I pay $800 more for a 3120 because it says J-Custom on the headstock? Heck no! Would I pay a slight premium to get a 1680 J-Custom instead of a 3120 Prestige because it has a different finish and different pickup configuration? You bet!

To me, it feels like Chevrolet & Pontiac. At the end of the day, they're basically the same cars. They share lots of similar parts. They look somewhat similar. They probably drive somewhat similarly. Maybe they even came off the same assembly line... Vettes only have the Chevy label on them. Those are your high-end, rare J-Customs like the ART, Gear, Metal, etc. But that doesn't mean that everything that Chevy produces is a Vette--there are Impalas and Cavaliers and Monte Carlos. Those are your more frequently occuring J-Customs like the 1680, 1880, etc. And Pontiac doesn't even offer anything close to a Vette, but there's a lot of similarity elsewhere in the product line--like the Grand Ams and Sunfires and Grand Prixs. Those are your more frequently occuring Prestige models like the 3120, 2020, 2027, etc.

At the end of the day, both J-Customs and Prestiges are great guitars. Is there hype? Occasionally. Is there truth to the hype? Occasionally. Is it any different than people hyping up Jems and UV's? Probably not, but until they start making mahogany Jems you can bet your sweet a$$ I'd take a J-Custom or Prestige over a Jem any day of the week.

--B

[Kevan]

No rest until you apologize and admit to being wrong.
These shoes suck, huh? Guess what- now it's your turn to wear them.

Rich- so you're saying a JS-1 is pretty much a JS-3? Well, like you said: "...when you get right down to it, 1 different pickup and different color doesn't change what you're looking at...".
There is no "JS-1 Donnie" and there is no "green 3120". Simple.
(BTW- the tuners got there. Thanks!)

[Rich]

Uh, yea, a JS1 is a JS3 without the paint job. It's only a JS 3 because of the paintjob!! Underneath it's the same guitar (with possibly a little more inspection of the parts sent to build them)

There is a green 3120, it just has a J Custom badge on it

[jay ratkowski]

Well, we even got someone from Hoshino to try and clear this up, and yet we're right back where we started. Just like that annoying broken record effect of that god-foresaken Pink song that plays in my head. ...you better get this party started.

Anyways, back to my point. Maybe this is a subject best left untouched. Ibanez/Hoshino USA seems quite content with the mystique surrounding the J-Custom line. Maybe it's better that way? Maybe that in fact is the marketing behind it? I mean, how many everyday guitarists can say they've seen a J-Custom? Usually when a shop (I'm talking the family types) gets something like this in, it's a big deal. I remember my store had a S5400NT in for a while (which I regret not buying, but I didn't know any better). It was somewhat of a centerpiece for the shop, much like when the DNA's first arrived. It was a guitar no one had seen before and probably no one would see again. Granted there are plenty of "ordinary" J-Customs that don't draw much attention... there are those ones out there that do just that. That's what the line is all about to me. Now, maybe it is true that an RG-ART is just an RG-570 (or whatever) with a nice top... but for Ibanez to just come out and say that, to confirm it, would really ruin any dignification the J-Custom name might carry.

Of course, all that I said most likely doesn't matter and this thread and others like it will continue to be more pointless battles between glen/kevan/rich that exude no useful results.

For what it's worth, looks and asthetics aside... the only real difference I've noticed in the J-Custom line is superior fret work. I've played far too many RG3120s that have high e strings falling off the fretboard (which I suppose would be more in the neck, but regardless) and most Prestige guitars seem to have frets seemingly untouched from when they were put on. They aren't horrible, just not great. The J-Customs aren't perfect either, but seem to have much neater fretwork (no frets hanging over the edge of the fretboard) and seem to be crowned a lot nicer. That's my experience at least.

Let the battles resume.