J-Custom & Prestige confusion - What makes a J-C a J-C?

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by vaijem777

Here's a total X-Files geeky take on the situation....

ROFLMFAO! Too funny.

The irony is that Glen *detests* cigarettes (specifically lit ones near him), but I'm the one that smokes.

Hilarious. Thanks Chris!

[David Ho]

That X-file thingy was just too funny... LMAO

I get the feeling that Ibanez's original intention was to come up with totally unique designs on a small production run for the domestic Japan market. The evolution of various models in the J-C line must somehow be driven by the Japan market. Lately we see the new J-customs fairly similar to the Prestige models, which may explain a certain convergence of design desired in Japan and US market (such as fingerboards, exotic tops, etc).

But as someone mentioned before, Ibanez seem to be more experimentative when it comes to J-Cs. All the additional cosmetic details and fancy electronics (Roland pickups, Piezo, etc) are not likely to be placed on mass production models unless it is market justified. So to me J-C really is like prototype cars which serves as R&D models or market tester. It is also why J-Cs always have that "exotic" flavor to it. I agree with the point that Prestige models are top-of-the-line production models, and their similarity to a few J-C models could very well be the result of success of a certain J-C design.

One thing we cannot ignore is that the J-C line does have a market in Japan on its own. Otherwise, major stores would not bother to carry them. Based on what I have seen and heard from guitar shops in Japan, J-Cs are catagorized as high-end over Prestige models. In terms of quality, by all means, this does not necessary mean Prestige is one notch below J-C, but pricewise J-Cs are in general more expensive than Prestige in Japan.

[Drew]

Oh god, that x-files bit made me die laughing over here... Which is bad since i'm reading this from the admissions desk in the coyurtyard of a world class art museum... *shudder*.

I like the "seperate but equal" idea, that they're both approximately the same quality, but one is a small-batch "test" guitar, to see how the market will respond, whereas the othger represents the mass-produced top of the line version; both are approximately the same quality, but they exsist for different purposes. Cool.

-Drew

[Gresh]

Originally Posted by Drew

Oh god, that x-files bit made me die laughing over here... Which is bad since i'm reading this from the admissions desk in the coyurtyard of a world class art museum... *shudder*.

I like the "seperate but equal" idea, that they're both approximately the same quality, but one is a small-batch "test" guitar, to see how the market will respond, whereas the othger represents the mass-produced top of the line version; both are approximately the same quality, but they exsist for different purposes. Cool.

-Drew

...but then what came first, the RG7CTVV Prestige or the RG8527 J-Custom?

Now those guitars are identical in everyway...down to the striped ebony headstock overlay.

My guess is that the 7CT didn't fly down the production line quick enough and sucked up too much overhead...sales couldn't justify the machining time the product sucked out of the plant. So rather than penalize the entire Prestige line by having to allocate more overhead to each guitar, they canned RG7CT, and moved it to a smaller facility with a lower overhead structure (the infamous J-Custom Plant). This would allow Ibanez to keep up the margin and not sacrifice the profitability of the remaining Prestige Guitars in the process (i.e. the ones that sell).

Just trying to inject some real world business sense into the argument...

Ta Ta

[Rich]

The CT came first, by 2 years. It was never meant to be a production model, only a limited run.

[Gresh]

I knew that, my question was more rhetorical than anything...

Just surfacing evidence that neither of these lines, if they are in fact separate lines, are really serving a prototype to mass production product migration strategy. Indeed it could be viewed that the opposite is happening, at least in the case of the CT/8527.

BTW, did anyone see the one on **** that went for $1775 uncased...holy crap. Guess the bidders didn't realize that you can get the 8527 cased and shipped from Ishibashi for like $1300. But I digress...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Gresh

BTW, did anyone see the one on **** that went for $1775 uncased...holy crap. Guess the bidders didn't realize that you can get the 8527 cased and shipped from Ishibashi for like $1300. But I digress...

Yup, same one he couldn't get $1100 for the last 2 times he tried on ****.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Gresh

I knew that, my question was more rhetorical than anything...

Just surfacing evidence that neither of these lines, if they are in fact separate lines, are really serving a prototype to mass production product migration strategy. Indeed it could be viewed that the opposite is happening, at least in the case of the CT/8527.

BTW, did anyone see the one on **** that went for $1775 uncased...holy crap. Guess the bidders didn't realize that you can get the 8527 cased and shipped from Ishibashi for like $1300. But I digress...

Yeah, so i think we can break it down as follows- similar lines, one geared for high production, the other comparatively limited production, and occasionally there's some crossover. This sounds fairly plausible... Yeah, i know a few of them, such as the aforementioned 8527, aren't THAT limited, but more so that your typical prestige, it appears.

Anyway...

-Drew

[gkelm]

FWIW....After seeing a multitude and playing several here in Tokyo, my impression of JCs is that the quality on comparable models is not necessarily higher than on Prestiges. The exception might be consistency in maple top figuring...I've never seen a "bad" on here on a JC, just some that are less spectacular than others (whereas I've seen some 3120 tops that are nicht so gut). But the high-end models (RG9670 & S9870 neck-through) are another story. These really seem to have a feel that's a step above the rest...and you certainly pay for it.
Greg

[pd0x]

Originally Posted by Drew

Yeah, so i think we can break it down as follows- similar lines, one geared for high production, the other comparatively limited production, and occasionally there's some crossover. This sounds fairly plausible... Yeah, i know a few of them, such as the aforementioned 8527, aren't THAT limited, but more so that your typical prestige, it appears.

Anyway...

-Drew

I think this settles the whole thing.

[urkoman]

Long time without posting, but i have to do it now. Agreed to the previous post from the Hoshino worker. I have an j-custom RG 8670 and i have to say itīs LIGHTYEARS over a prestige. I can easily compare as i had a 3120. The j-custom is honduras mahogany made /the 3120 is african, the JC has an AAAA top/the 3120 AAA, pickups are different (and three in spite of two), the neck is wider, almost jem-sized and made of five pieces (3 maple 2 bubinga)/the 3120 is three maple, the fingerboard is ebony with vine inlay/ the 3120 rosewood.
Do you still think theyīre the same guitars? It has the same quality as my Jem 90 Ham, which is far better than a prestige too, isnīt?

[Rich]

Try comparring the 3120 to the myriad of rosewood board JC's, that's not a quality issue, that's a spec issue

Bottom line is it still depends on the hands that did the finishing work. I've had JC's that were more like regular production, but I've also had a Prestige that wasn't good enough for Indonesian production

[urkoman]

I know Rich, but you canīt put all j-customs in the same group nor all prestiges. I just say the high end j-custom are much better. Canīt tell about lower JC as i only have the 8670, but iīve had some prestiges and this guitar is much better (big difference).
And the specs, hmmm...rosewood vs ebony is a spec, but the AAAA vs AAA top or Honduras mahogany vs african arenīt, theyīre just a quality upgrade, donīt you agree? The 8570 and 8527 have this upgrade too having a rosewood board, so i think theyīre better too.
Apart, my 3120 was perfect, but it simply is a worse guitar than my 8670, you just need a look and a touch to notice. Maybe iīm a lucky man.
BTW Rich, Iīm still wating for that we talked a month ago, seems it will delay till February or march, but my intention is the same.

[Rich]

I've seen AAAAA tops on 3120's, and does nobody remember the driftwood RG4's?!

How do you know it's Honduran, does it answer in Spanish?

[urkoman]

The guitar specs were honduras mahogany at the ibanez japan page, and Noriko at ishibashi confirmed it to me. Apart, i have another Honduras mahogany made guitar and two africans and thereīs a notorius difference. The honduras are lighter, different drawed and better sounding.
We talk a lot at night!!!
What does driftwood mean?