My E's too high dog! - Page 3

waylay00 · #31 12-28-2007, 02:27 PM

Same goes with Joe Glaser and Phil Jacoby. Glaser does work for all the Nashville cats (Paisley, Gill, etc), not to mention others like Larry Carlton. I hardly doubt those guys would ship their guitars to just any tech.

Rich · #32 12-28-2007, 02:32 PM

Sorry, but didn't "tell off" anybody "working with a PLEK", I'm just stating it as it is. All it does is replace the handwork of a good tech. Is it better for problem necks with a bad profile, like S shaped, possibly, even the greatest tech isn't going to get that cut perfect every time, otherwise, it's nothing more than a fret level done by a machine! And the PLEK does think for itself, you enter the desired use and action and it does the rest. All the tech does is the crown and polish. Is it nice for a shop to have? Obviously with the way everybody talks about it like it's the second coming

The nut solution is still to find a nut in the 14" radius range in 1 11/16".

Algiman · #33 12-28-2007, 02:38 PM

The PLEK does the crown too.

Algiman · #34 12-28-2007, 02:41 PM

Just stirring it Rich

It does not replace the work of a good tech, and still takes skill to use, but, as we all know, decent fretwork is barely half the story for a good set up.

Rich · #35 12-28-2007, 02:49 PM

Didn't read that it crowned too.

It does not take any skill to use, by everything I've read. That is it's biggest selling point is anybody can operate it and get perfect fret levels. Yes, what happens after the level is just as important but perfect fretwork is the heart of any good playing guitar. Gasser and Brawer and all the rest use it because they can have assistants and trainees do the work and still insure the job is done to the level they would have done it themselvs. I've talked with Gary about it.

To give it a prop it does deserve it does make multi radius work simple to do.

Algiman · #36 12-28-2007, 03:59 PM

Straying OT here but .....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

It does not take any skill to use, by everything I've read.

For a while Gibson were using it on many of their guitars prior to shipping (not sure if they still do), and the fretwork was still dodgy on a fair few examples. It may not take much skill, but you can still eff it up.

I just think that the benefits are marginal compared to a good tech unless you are into stupidly low actions, which then negates any decent trem action.

Rich · #37 12-28-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algiman

I just think that the benefits are marginal compared to a good tech unless you are into stupidly low actions, which then negates any decent trem action.

That is basically my point, and the only marginal benefit I see is on necks that have problems to begin with [besides the fact that it will save a lot of shop time, at the expense of some serious cash!]. Yet everybody praises it like only it can do a perfect job

Fabio · #38 12-29-2007, 12:01 PM

Well, I really didn't want to try to start an arguement or something - Plus, english really sin't my main tongue so I shouldn't delve into one because I won't really be understood anyway, but still: PLEK is a really nice machine.

Regardless if you don't need as much "expertise" using one of those than doing it by hand, but from everything I've tried, PLEK does it better. And that's good enough for me

Granted, my True Temperament Jem (That I still haven't got around to taking pics of, I -really- should be banned) isn't PLEKed because it will absolutely screw up the machine with its curved frets, but it's -aaaaalmost- as good setup as my PLEKed ones. But still, it's an almost in there. I'm down to numbers from Hell on this one though, it's like shiftings of a 0.001th Millimeter here and there.

Rich · #39 12-29-2007, 10:03 PM

Again, PLEK does not do a fret level better. It's very simple, they're either level or they aren't! And again, the only advantage it has [except in saving shop time and only using the time of an assistant] is in reading the cut on problem necks.

Algiman · #40 12-30-2007, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Again, PLEK does not do a fret level better. It's very simple, they're either level or they aren't!

That is the point, the PLEK does not level the frets, it profiles them to the player's preferences both along the length of the neck and across the frets. True, some techs can do that (for serious money in the UK normally) but not to the tolerances of the PLEK machine.

When I had it done to one of my guitars - and it was simply because it had a couple of problem frets and needed work I didn't have time to do anyway - the results were astounding. It went from being a bit of a dog to being the nicest playing low action guitar I've ever played. But, as I mentioned, I'm not too into the low action so once I raised the bridge a tad and jumped on stage to use the guitar in anger the benefits to me were not as big as they would be for some people.

That said, if I needed to have fret work done again, and I had a choice between giving my £100 to a shop that would do it by hand or a shop with a PLEK, I'd go for the PLEK.

Fabio · #41 12-30-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algiman

That is the point, the PLEK does not level the frets, it profiles them to the player's preferences both along the length of the neck and across the frets. True, some techs can do that (for serious money in the UK normally) but not to the tolerances of the PLEK machine.

When I had it done to one of my guitars - and it was simply because it had a couple of problem frets and needed work I didn't have time to do anyway - the results were astounding. It went from being a bit of a dog to being the nicest playing low action guitar I've ever played. But, as I mentioned, I'm not too into the low action so once I raised the bridge a tad and jumped on stage to use the guitar in anger the benefits to me were not as big as they would be for some people.

That said, if I needed to have fret work done again, and I had a choice between giving my £100 to a shop that would do it by hand or a shop with a PLEK, I'd go for the PLEK.

Thank you. That's kind of what I wanted to say, but I had no idea of how to put it.

Rich · #42 12-30-2007, 02:42 PM

I FULLY understand PLEK, you all act like I don't have a clue what it does. I've read every word on the PLEK site and talked to Gary [owner and very respected tech using a PLEK in hiw shop] about it, can ANY of the rest of you say this?! It can correct less than optimal neck profiles [I've already stated this!], it can cut in more relief on the bass side [a tech doing a level can do ths], it claims that a human can only achieve .1mm results and to this I say, bullsh!t! They claim you can't cut it with the simulated string tension, again, bullsh!t. They sell you a LOT of hype that is not true, in addition to a lot of hype that is. And in the end, it's STILL A FRET LEVEL!!

Algiman · #43 12-30-2007, 03:04 PM

Whoa Rich, no offence was intended here - I value your professional opinion on these things.

I suspect that the argument as to whether or not it is a fret level is rather a semantic one; the frets do not all end up level, so I personally wouldn't call it a fret level. A fret level to me is that typically cruddy shop job where the neck is held straight, the frets cut to the same height, then recrowned.
I'm sure that you do know all about the machine, (which is why I was surprised you mentioned that didn't know it did the crowning) but I'm sure much of the audience here doesn't.
I would remain resolute that it does a significantly better job than the AVARAGE tech working in a typical guitar store, and will be more accurate than a human. Whether or not that additional accuracy is actually worth anything is debatable. In my case I'd go PLEK simply because it is predictably good rather than a shop where you may get a master doing the work or you may get his muppet assistant on an off day.

Rich · #44 12-30-2007, 04:27 PM

None taken, I'm just working out my frustrations.

I forgot it crowned, I definitely try not to think about it.

Most people see more relief on the bass side and say THE NECK IS TWISTED. Yet they intentionally cut it, if you want it done that way. That will not be in all their programs. A tech can do that without a machine, if he wants to. It's just like doing a level on a neck that has way too much relief on the bass side. It just takes more time. It's all the crap they spew about "manual is only accurate to .1mm", puhlease, .1mm is a ROCKING FRET. Who or what are these "manual" levels they're talking about?! Somebody using a hand held file that I would only use to trim fret overhang?! And a neck can't be cut under string simualted stress?! These are all lies to try and hype the machine, and if you have to lie to hype, your advantages start to shrink, like my sack in an icebath.

Algiman · #45 12-30-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Who or what are these "manual" levels they're talking about?!

That would be the muppet I referred too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

like my sack in an icebath.

Nice.

This thing about the simulated stress - my understanding was that they set the guitar up, the machine then measures the relief with the strings still on and works out how much to remove. The removal is then done with the strings off obviously. Surely that is about as good a method as you can get?