RG ART Numbering - Serial and Control Number Analysis

[Rich]

First a question, how many J Customs have these control #'s? I never paid attention. I have to assume it's not just Art's right?

I started this new thread to keep discussion/posts off the Registry page. There are now enough numbers to begin to sort them out and what they reveal is very important. This may seem difficult to follow but it's very simple. The #'s that we currently have,

The 100% List
(As of 12.13.01- 2AM)

Rearanged into serial order

1. Kevan's - F9714454 & 970392
3. BDuersch's - F9714464 & 970398
5. Martin Behr's - F9723880 & 970541
7. *JC's Guitars- *F97????? & 970862
4. Ebay- 12/12 - F9738852 & 970868
6. German Schauss' - F9738854 & 970870
2. Vaijem777's - F9749151 & 97????


The serial #'s alone are telling their own story, and the control #'s are telling their own part of it. They're in batches, *serially numbered. My deduction is the control # is serially numbering J Custom labeled guitars only. For example Kevan's ART would be the 392nd J Custom built in 97' (and incedently the lowest numbered ART). Fair assumtion?
(And follows their norm)

Now start to define the batches.

392 - 398
541 - ???
852 - ???
862 - 870

When you define the boundries of these batches, you define the total made in that batch. Trust me, many years I've put into tracking JS Graphics serial #'s to define their batches, for many reasons. The way this relates to production, there are

at least 6 in the 390's
at least a few in the 540's
at least 8 in the 860's - possibly it's at least 18 between 852 and 870.
at least a few in the 1000's (to follow)

Just to break this down further using the serial #'s,

14454 - 14464 ** the 390's batch
***** - 23880 ***the 540's batch
38852 - 38854 ** the 860's batch *(w/o crucial #)
***** - 49151 ***CHRIS CHILDRESS! NEED YOUR #!!

If I'm correct I can guarantee Chris' *control* number is well over 870. Probably right around 971000.

If I'm correct JC's serial # will be + or - *1* digit from F9738846.
SOMEBODY please get it, I asked already

If I am correct all future numbers will fall right into place.

You can sort many models out by their serial #'s. *I know there are at least 3 large ranges the DNA serial #'s fall into. Withing the batches the serial #'s are all consecutive. In the factory when the necks are made the luthiers tool up and run off a batch. They're rolled through their various stations lined up on a rack as a batch, all kept together. One of these stations is the guy with all the serial numbers and/or stamps. I'm sure he records the serial numbers and denotes the model, then applies all the serial decals.

I have YET to determine if the control/edition # is under or over the clear. I belive it's over but it's tricky on the eye. If it's over it means they went through stamping as a seperate station and uncanny how the control/edition #'s follow the serial #'.

Now if I could ony figure out this 510117 means on this RG1508 I have here. Is this a control number alone? A Japanese market serial #? I could almost buy it's the 117th J Cusom made but I'm really clueless what the 51 would mean.

We would have a very intersting and informative thread if ALL J Custom owners posted their control numbers and serial #'s, or whatever #'s you've got!! :biggrin:

[Todd Crawford]

Well, we have 5 CST owners?? Or is it 6?? We could compare those.

[Kevan]

This is all great and dandy, but there are a few tiny problems to completely toss the theory out the window:

1. Chris' ART doesn't have a Control Number.

2. Another thing: Of the FIVE J-Customs here at my house, the ART is the only one with a Control Number.

3. Not all of the number differences are in sync.
Example:
F9738852 & 970868
F9738854 & 970870
This is what I would expect- the numerical differences between the serial number and the control number, match. *Two in serial, two in control. *Easy. *But....look at this one:

F9714454 & 970392
F9714464 & 970398
This leaves a difference of 10 in the serial number, but only 6 in the control number.

I wouldn't over-analyize the numbers. *Ibanez's numbering system(s) have been weirder than CarrotTop in a Wes Craven film. *

[Rich]

It's my job to overanalyze numbers!! :biggrin:

Kev, if the control # is over the clear which I highly suspect (just haven't gotten out the electron microscope to confirm) it would be assumed the #'s would be off a few digits running between the 2. The necks would have been through several stations before having these control #'s stamped on and some slight *reorganization* of the batch would be expected.

Well, Chris' doesn't have a control #, crap. *And it appears the Art's were the only ones with them anyway?? Curious!! I love riddles! The lack of control on Chris' would either indicate 1 of 2 things. Either it was a replacement neck (which would have a much later serial # as it does) or by that batch of ART's they saw the futility of the twin numbering system and dropped it. Oh well, the serial numbers still work just as well, they are still serially numbered in individual batches. It will become much clearer as more #'s come out.

Batching #'s like this only works on necks specific to a certain model. The ART's neck is *absolute* model specific. The CST's neck might not be. The same neck was used on the walnut version, and most likely all other home market/export J custom that was a 7 string with blank ebony board. The designation #'s on the neck on the 1508 here is actually RG380C, as it's common to many different models, this is a base model marking. The CST #'s are worth a look though, so bring em' on!

[vaijem777]

If mine is in fact a replacement, it had to have been replaced prior to leaving Ibanez-the serial number on the Guitar Gallery receipt is the same as it is on the guitar. *Pretty odd though that mine doesn't have a control number...but it keeps things interesting, right? *

[Rich]

Actually it could mean that Guitar Gallery had a bad neck replaced before they sold it. As much as they charge I would hope they are that picky with QC. But yes, the lack of control # is a riddle that will only play out if other serial #'s confirm the 49*** range as a batch range and not just a one off.

[kuma]

Well, maybe I can make this a little more interesting...

My RG1680S has 2 numbers on the headstock...

One is the usual serial number, with the 'CE' logo and all. *Serial number is F0045080.

There is also another number the looks like it was stamped on with black ink. *Is this the control number you guys are talking about? *That number is 000542.

I bought this guitar at an Ishibashi store in February of 2001.

[bduersch]

My 1880BGS is doubly-numbered: #F9905394/990214
Though my RG6CST was not: #F9920670

--B

[Rich]

Keep them coming guys, this could get intersting, and confusing!! :rotf:

[Marcus]

Food for thought:
I'm not stating anything, just throwing ideas out there.

<..snip..>
1. Kevan's - F9714454 & 970392
<..>

97 03 92
March of '97, #92
Too obvious?

Marcus.

[Rich]

Kev and I have already considered that possibility, and it is possible. We may never know for sure without a little *factory*assistence.

[Kevan]

Hmmmm...
Check this out.
Could it be that simple?

[Rich]

WOW!! The site's back up!! The way I figure it's #rd consecutive just like the serial #'s are. When did vintage.com come back online?

[Rich]

Rich on 5:46 am on Dec. 13, 2001


If I'm correct JC's serial # will be + or - *1* digit from F9738846.
SOMEBODY please get it, I asked already

And now that the # is in, F9738846. Was I close? :biggrin:

[jemsite]

damn i'm impressed... that was pretty good :biggrin: ...glen