Trying and buying j custom ibanez

ashton · #1 06-09-2006, 05:32 AM

Im really looking into buying a certain j custom, but annoyingly there are very few places(as you would probably know) that actually stock these guitars. I wanna try out specific models, obviously before buying aswell, but I have to buy exactly what I order so I cant really do this. Im now really put off getting a j custom so i might opt for something else. its so freakin annoying cos theyre such nice guitars.

regards

Bezial · #2 06-09-2006, 06:08 AM

a jems necks very similar, sound is good, i guess what more do you need to know

as long as you can try one with the same pickup config then your laughing, the aanj is very cool to

i do know what you mean but years ago i used to order strats without haveing played them and just go on the specs listed, only one i never liked was the deep v style neck , if you know what your after try something as close as you can get to it. to be honest i think most guys will say you cant go wrong with a j custom anyway.

eviltwin · #3 06-09-2006, 07:42 AM

The longer you wait the less choice you will have, currently the JC line-up only contains 2 models (2006) one flametop/vine, available in three colors and a biker black EMG machine. That's it.

FWIW when I purchased my last guitar (JEM90HAM) I also checked out the following:
JC ART, JC Metal and several RG Paints (a fluor multicolour and the matte 'van Gogh/crayon' thingy), PGM90 and JPM90, and a UV.

I did't feel the JCs were better than the others, they are very nice, but a well built HAM was just as good, if not better. Furthermore, the JC line hasn't been as innovative as those 97/98 model years. Even the double edge RG6, S and RG7 could later be had in regular production.

If you absolutely want an RG flame top with a vine, you have no alternative and buying a flametop unseen is always a bit of a risk.

Rich · #4 06-09-2006, 11:56 AM

There is a huge difference in JC's from 8 years ago and JC's today. 8 years ago JC's were all about cool finishes, but were on the same level as regular production. Today they're all about quality craftsmanship and far exceed regular production [which itself far exceeds the quality of JC's 8 years ago]..

eviltwin · #5 06-09-2006, 02:18 PM

So what they given up in innovation they've gained in craftmanship?

If that is the case, I don't see how they can be much different from regular production, JemBRM = RGT320Q = RG8470 = 2500EUR around these parts.

The Jem has an interesting top and a famous endorsee,
the RGT is a neck through quilt,
the 8470 has a vine and a flame...

you *do* get what you pay for

BTW a regular RG is ~900, a regular RGT is ~1200.

Having looked closely at recent production (BRM & RGT) what am I supposed to see? 'far exceeds regular production quality'? I'm not convinced, this is exactly what people were saying ca. 1998. In fact I don't see much difference between 05' and '95 production. Certainly not a huge difference.

In fact, no ebony, still the same old TZ/AN combo and Edge Pro i.s.o. LoPro doesn't bode well for the JC line. It really needs a kick in the a$$, IMHO

But to stay positive, why don't you give us some pointers Rich, what are we supposed to see when it comes to craftmanship? What are we supposed to be looking at Frets, Necks, Finish?

Allow me to make a devious proposition: With US prices being so low (a problem exacerbated by the low US$) perhaps the problem is with Ibanez shipping B-specs to USA, that would also explain why they don't bother shipping JCs?

Rich · #6 06-09-2006, 05:28 PM

You have very low attention to detail. Fretwork, end finishing, board edge finishing, are so obviously better I suspect you either need glasses, or have never seen a current JC up close.

Nope,

"I don't see much difference between 05' and '95 production."

It's confirmed, no attention to detail.

JJEMMER777 · #7 06-09-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

attention to detail.

Lol..trust me, Rich has brought attention to detail to a whole new level!!!

**jemsite** · #8 06-09-2006, 05:52 PM

it's amazing the level of arguments such a silly "line" of ibanez guitars has generated.

...glen

Qucifer · #9 06-09-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemsite

it's amazing the level of arguments such a silly "line" of ibanez guitars has generated.

...glen

That's what makes them special.

Rich · #10 06-09-2006, 07:23 PM

Back when we used to goat Kev things were much different than they are today. In 98' everything was pretty much the same level of craftsmanship [production vs. JC] but the JC's did get a par better materials. Today the difference is vast, just as vast as the difference in todays production vs. production from 98' [or 92', or 88', etc]. So while you may say they're silly arguments [or silly guitars] it's pretty much only because you have no experience with them

**jemsite** · #11 06-09-2006, 07:46 PM

or maybe i'd have "experience" with them if i felt they were worth my time/attention

i'm not passing judgement on them in 2006, only to say the whole concept of a few hundred axes sold yearly has generated alot of internet traffic & conversation

...glen

eviltwin · #12 06-09-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

You have very low attention to detail. Fretwork, end finishing, board edge finishing, are so obviously better I suspect you either need glasses, or have never seen a current JC up close.

Nope,

"I don't see much difference between 05' and '95 production."

It's confirmed, no attention to detail.

There is no need to ridicule my eyesight, or question my attention to detail, I can assure you it's fine.

I always look at guitars very closely (from Indonesian GRGs to J-craft Jems) I usually look at them for a while, before I start playing. I must admit that I've only seen close-up pics of recent JCs, not handled them, but that only confirmed what I saw and felt on Team J-craft guitars (Jem, RG, RGT).

I was asking, if you could enlighten us normal folk, what we are supposed to see when it comes to the current JCs? I've heard the comments on frets and fretboard loads of times, what I saw was good fret ends but lesser and rougher workmanship on the fretboard edges, that's not a huge improvement, that's a shift in attention. It just proves there is still variation because of hand finishing.

Like I said, when Jem = RGT = JC = 2500EUR, there cannot be a huge difference in workmanship; sure, materials and marketing will allow for some cost and price variance, but not a huge difference.

Personally, I will look at them in much the same way, I will not be blinded by custom, prestige of j-craft logos, I will judge them as I see them. I suggest ashton does the same.

Fujigen builds hundreds of JCs a year, just as they build thousands of Jems, and hundreds of the other less popular endorsee models, they also (still) build truckloads of Str@t and Les P@ul copies for the Japanse market, JCustom is just another line of guitars to them, nothing special, high quality like most of their stuff, but nothing special.

Rich · #13 06-09-2006, 08:04 PM

"Like I said, when Jem = RGT = JC = 2500EUR, there cannot be a huge difference in workmanship;"

Sorry but you're confirming your lack of attention. Very little on a guitar is actually done by hand these days, but the end finishing and edge radiusing is one of those very few things, and the difference in level of craftsmanship is extreme, just as the difference is between 95' and 2005.

"what I saw was good fret ends but lesser and rougher workmanship on the fretboard edges, that's not a huge improvement, that's a shift in attention"

Lesser rougher edges? That isn't indicative of current JC's by any means, and if you think that's not a huge improvement that means that you could care less about the added craftsmanship it takes to produce the results you'll find on current gen'. If that's not huge to you then what exactly is? I've sold JC's to private stock PRS players that cannot believe how much better the crafsmanship is on the JC.

And obviously you've never held a JC neck and a JEM neck at the same time, because the JC neck [with the same dimension] will weigh significantly more because of the maple used. JC are also not production line like everything else you've mentioned. They carry the same J Craft serial stickers but they are made in their own parts of the factory using the best crafsman on the floor, and it shows, if you take notice [or care about the differences].

eviltwin · #14 06-11-2006, 07:40 AM

Rich you are clutching at straws, a 2500EUR Fujigen guitar is a 2500EUR Fujigen guitar,

You are also contradicting yourself:

Very little on a guitar is actually done by hand
vs.
the best crafsman on the floor?

How much of a difference are these fine craftmen going to make if they don't actually get to do anything? The fret ends/ fretboard edge story has already been debunked. For even one guy to spend 10mins of extra sanding would add up to 200EUR to the MSRP.

Since the price difference isn't there, the extra work can't be there either. (the fact that *you* can spend over an hour on set-up for 200$ is irrelevant)

Heavier maple? FWIW there is only a statistical relation between weight (density) and strength (or stiffness). Heavier doesn't automatically mean stronger, or stiffer. 30% of the mass of the neck is in the trussrod anyway.

Furthermore Maple has a relatively low strength to weight ratio, compared to other typical guitar woods. Ebony, bubinga or rosewood are much better in that respect. In fact ebony is up to 70% stronger than maple, for just a 30% increase in weight. If they really cared they would put thick ebony boards on all JCs, or even all rosewood necks.

Lastly, strenght isn't everything; the UV uses two Wenge strips which is softer, lighter and less strong than any other neck material.

However, the question was should one try a JC before buying, my answer to ahston is: yes, don't fall for the marketing hype, if you want to buy an RG with a flame and a vine, you need to inspect it first hand, the quality of the top can vary.

voodoo_child · #15 06-11-2006, 07:51 AM

I wouldnt bother getting into the kind of technical arguments you are doing eviltwin, most of what you said doesnt have any basis in reality and im sure if someone has too much time on their hands they will quote your arguments and 'debunk' them (your words). Im not that way inclined.

Suffice to say, if youve never picked one up and played/examined it, i think you should reservere judgement until you do. Whether the level of craftmanship is worth the money is a question for the buyer to answer, but there is no disputing (in my opinion) that the quality on display is higher than a regular prestige.