USRG30 added to my Ibanez Collection!!

JimiVai · #1 03-20-2003, 03:52 AM

Just received my USRG30 Trans Black today. Truly a great guitar. One question though. Why is there an S stamped on the back of the headstock? I am so proud of my Ibanez collection, hopefully I can share some pics. My collection includes:

1996 Jem 10
1999 Jem 7VWH
1992 RBM2 NT
1998 JPM90
1992 UCEWFM NT
1996 USRG30 Trans Black
1996 USRG30 Butterscotch
2001 RGT3120 Trans Violet

RAI6 · #2 03-20-2003, 04:24 AM

I believe an "S" stamped on the headstock means that the guitar is a "2nd" grade guitar.
It has a flaw somewhere.
It could be minor (you would never know unless it was pointed out) or it could be obvious.
Whatever it is, it was enough to make it fail inspection at the factory.
If you have a dealer that is fair and honest, they should have pointed this out, as they are not supposed to sell these as first rate, highest quality guitars.
The price should reflect that too.....

vaijem777 · #3 03-20-2003, 11:15 AM

Yup. "S" means that the guitar is a Factory Second.

Jason Stone · #4 03-20-2003, 01:45 PM

I wouldn't worry very much about it. For some reason, many of the USRGs have the factory second stamp on the headstock. Two of the three I have personally seen had the stamp, and I know there's someone else around here that has/had one too. Yours makes 4.

My theory is that many of the headstocks used on USRGs came from necks that were originally meant for other guitars but that could not be used because of some flaw. Rather than throw those necks away, Ibanez sent them over to PBC so the headstocks at least could be used on the tension-free necks. I have no evidence for this. Just a theory.

RAI6 · #5 03-20-2003, 02:06 PM

Headstocks are attached AFTER the neck is finished???
Hm, I tend to not believe that, for some ODD reason.

**jemsite** · #6 03-20-2003, 02:15 PM

i'd wager alot were stamped S as they were cleared out remaining stock... glen

Jason Stone · #7 03-20-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAI6

Headstocks are attached AFTER the neck is finished???
Hm, I tend to not believe that, for some ODD reason.

Yes, on the USRGs, the headstock is actually a separate piece that can be fully detached from the tension-free neck. You probably don't remember the yahoo a couple of years back who actually turned his USRG into a Steinberger.

Jason Stone · #8 03-20-2003, 03:22 PM

Here's an old thread on this.

vaijem777 · #9 03-20-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Stone

My theory is that many of the headstocks used on USRGs came from necks that were originally meant for other guitars but that could not be used because of some flaw. Rather than throw those necks away, Ibanez sent them over to PBC so the headstocks at least could be used on the tension-free necks. I have no evidence for this. Just a theory.

Not a very likely theory at all, seeing as how the headstocks used on the URGS' are completely UNLIKE any other Ibanez models. Different angle, completely different construction (not only the tension-free construction, but having the maple laminate on the headstock as well) etc. If anything, the "S" stamp had more to do with dealers trying to clear them out due to poor sales.

A more likely theory would be that the "S" stamped guitars were distrubuted to the larger chains such as Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc.

Jason Stone · #10 03-20-2003, 06:32 PM

I'll buy that. Still a bit of mystery, though.

vaijem777 · #11 03-20-2003, 10:36 PM

What's a mystery about it? Gibson marked thousands and thousands of guitars for years with a "2" on the back of the headstock. Epiphone did (and still does) the same thing. Just about every guitar manufacturer has, at one time or another, done something in regards to their "seconds". They're usually guitars that aren't fit for resale at full price. It could be a finish flaw, and problem with the way the woods are glued together, a routing error, etc.

It's a factory second. It was most likely sold at a deeply discounted price through a large reseller. From what I've seen, they bring on the average of 20%-30% less than a model that is not marked as a second. There's nothing wrong with owning one at all...unless you want to resell it in the future.

As long as you got a GREAT deal on it, chances are it plays and sounds just as good as any other USRG. Definitely a great "beater".

Jason Stone · #12 03-20-2003, 11:00 PM

The mystery is that in 13 years of playing Ibanez guitars, the USRGs are the only line I've come across that are commonly factory seconds. I think I've seen one or maybe two other Ibanez models in that 13 years that were seconds. I'm sure there are others out there (maybe plenty), but for some reason this seems way more prevalent on the USRGs.

This is starting to sound like the ATD/MKR debate.

vaijem777 · #13 03-21-2003, 12:43 AM

Well...it shouldn't be much of a mystery, considering that the USRGs weren't even MADE by Ibanez at all. And the USRGs were terrible sellers when they were new. Same with the MA2 American Masters, of which I've seen (2) with "S" stamps on the back of the headstock. NOT made by Ibanez. NOT great sellers. But then, there weren't untold thousands of those made either...

It's nothing like the MKR/ATD debate: that is opinion. That the USRG necks were made by PBC/Bunker Guitars under contract for Ibanez is a fact. Ibanez ended up with a ton of high-end guitars that weren't selling very well. That much takes any "mystery" out of the whole issue. It can be summed up in one word: business.

Yes...Ibanez is in the business to MAKE money. When a model doesn't sell, they blow them out at ridiculous prices. (PMC/GMC for $700 anybody? JS3/4/5 for $700 anybody?) It's commonly referred to as "Supply & Demand". In the case of the USRGs, supply far exceeded the demand for the product. So...Ibanez was stuck with a surplus. Not thousands of guitars, but enough to hurt.

PBC/Bunker was a contractor for the production of the necks and bodies. They were undoubtedly comitted to a certain number of units. Once Ibanez discovered that the guitars were NOT selling, one (or both) of two scenarios then came into play:
1)having the manufacturer stamp a "2" on the leftovers was probably much easier than renegotiating a contract.
2)OR...more likely, it was probably just more cost effective to SELL the deffective ("second") guitars at a discounted rate though a large reseller (JEM777VSK anybody?).

It makes perfect sense if you understand how a business works.

PS 13 years playing Ibanez? I spent 7 years SELLING them. Although, out of the 5 USRGs that my store had, each of them celebrated a few birthdays. The only thing that finally got rid of them was selling them at cost.

(and my store wasn't the only one in town that couldn't give them away!)

Rich · #14 03-21-2003, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaijem777

JS3/4/5 for $700 anybody?)

I just came

vaijem777 · #15 03-21-2003, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I just came

LOL I only wish that I was actually making enough to AFFORD to take advantage of those deals back in the day! Practically had the Ibanez rep begging us to take swirls and graphics. If only I'd known then what I know now... Of course...I DID snag one Donnie. Damn! Should have kept it! LOL