Wizard I neck, the elusive profile?!?

[peavey_impact]

My 1991 square-heel RG560 has the original Wizard neck.

[S-man]

This is why the block heel generally has better sustain/tone.



More neck surface area mounted to the body.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by S-man

This is why the block heel generally has better sustain/tone.



More neck surface area mounted to the body.

Yes, but the neck plate doesn't make such a good connection as the bus type used on the AANJ. The buses are actually anchored in the wood, and aren't linked to eachother, so you get a stronger and more direct connection between neck, bolt and heel (the neckplate distributes the force over the surface).

The amount of wood touching doesn't really matter that much (the difference is small anyway). It's only connected by the bolts... The rest is just touching, nothing more (a set-neck is different, because the tenon on the neck is actually slightly oversized and is pressed into the wood, ensuring a perfect connection. Bolt-on isn't even close. And the anchoring type is superior to the backplate, which is why it is so popular on basses.

[S-man]

Alrighty then.

For the record I have both block heel and annj...several actually.

Also have neck through and set neck.

But OK....

[Scali]

Originally Posted by S-man

Alrighty then.

For the record I have both block heel and annj...several actually.

Also have neck through and set neck.

But OK....

So do I, what's your point?

In fact, another point raised somewhere is that on the block heel, the top frets are floating over the body on that flap that extends from the fretboard, which also causes poor sustain on the upper frets. The AANJ doesn't suffer from this.

[S-man]

I guess there is no point...

Unless your going to break out the test equipment and do a scientific experiment.

Just sharing my experience.

[bulletbass man]

Originally Posted by Scali

Yes, and?
The EJ signature is complete and utter BS. They just made a replica of the vintage Strat that Eric Johnson had been using for years. It has nothing to do with design. The guitar was designed in the 50s by Leo Fender. Eric Johnson just happened to get famous while using one, and Fender wanted to cash in on that.
The exact same story applies to Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton.

Paul Gilbert has had multiple signature guitars, some of which were bolt-on, some weren't (the violin guitar and the reverse Iceman for example). He's also a big fan of the lawsuit Ibanezes, but these cannot be made into production models for obvious reasons.

As for Steve Lukather... well what were they going to do, make a series-reproduction of his legendary '59 Les Paul?
His current signature is little more than a standard MM Silhouette with his custom EMG set. I doubt he had a lot of input in the design. MM simply doesn't make anything other than bolt-ons.

Most signatures just aren't designed by the artist at all, they're just off-the-shelf designs with some special specs, that don't go much further than custom pickups, hardware and paintjob. And even if they do have some input in the design, they're often limited by what the luthier can mass-produce at an affordable price.

Even Les Paul didn't have all that much input in the design of the guitar.

Well you know the Jem, JS, FGM, were just stock guitars handed to the artists right?

[Scali]

Originally Posted by bulletbass man

Well you know the Jem, JS, FGM, were just stock guitars handed to the artists right?

More or less yes.
The JS is actually just a Radius, the FGM is an S with a slightly deeper neck pocket and recessed controls. As for the Jem... it's obviously a variation on the new Roadstar (now RG) that was released the same year.
They borrow so many specs and features from the stock models that it's highly debatable that the bolt-on neck was a deliberate choice. Changing the neck joint would make it a whole lot more expensive to produce these guitars, because they couldn't borrow as much from the other production models.
Currently a Jem is just an RG with a monkey grip and lion claw routed out. The FGM was also just an S with some extra routing.

[jono]

Originally Posted by Scali

More or less yes.
The JS is actually just a Radius, the FGM is an S with a slightly deeper neck pocket and recessed controls. As for the Jem... it's obviously a variation on the new Roadstar (now RG) that was released the same year.
They borrow so many specs and features from the stock models that it's highly debatable that the bolt-on neck was a deliberate choice. Changing the neck joint would make it a whole lot more expensive to produce these guitars, because they couldn't borrow as much from the other production models.
Currently a Jem is just an RG with a monkey grip and lion claw routed out. The FGM was also just an S with some extra routing.

A bit mixed up there. The JEM bodyshape was designed first and the change to teh Roadstar bodyshape made in response to that, that's a common misconception.

The JEM was based on Steves choice of guitars at the time - bolt on necked superstrats including the Performance guitars he was touring with with big cutaways etc.

I think all the players named here (Satch, Frank and Steve) had enough savvy and influence to choose a bolt on neck construction for their guitars (which they were all using prior to signing on with Ibanez) rather than scrimping to save production costs.

[Ayrton]

Originally Posted by Scali

Yes, but the neck plate doesn't make such a good connection as the bus type used on the AANJ.

This is incorrect as the plate will distribute more pressure over a wider area than the four ferrules.

Also the larger heel adds a bit of mass that will also affect sound.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by jono

A bit mixed up there. The JEM bodyshape was designed first and the change to teh Roadstar bodyshape made in response to that, that's a common misconception.

No, the JEM was presented to the public first. That doesn't mean that Ibanez didn't plan the Roadstar all along.
As far as I know, Ibanez sent a few prototypes to Steve Vai, which convinced him that Ibanez was the company to build his signature guitar. Who's to say that these prototypes weren't already RG-style?

Originally Posted by jono

The JEM was based on Steves choice of guitars at the time - bolt on necked superstrats including the Performance guitars he was touring with with big cutaways etc.

I think all the players named here (Satch, Frank and Steve) had enough savvy and influence to choose a bolt on neck construction for their guitars (which they were all using prior to signing on with Ibanez) rather than scrimping to save production costs.

I doubt it. They used Strats because that's the only thing you could put a Floyd Rose on without too much hassle back in those days. I really don't think it's a very conscious choice for any of them. They just built their 'Frankenstrats' from Strat parts because that was the only way to go. Then companies started copying these Frankenstrats and making them production models, and that's how the Ibanez Roadstar/RG, S, Radius and Power came to be. Even today the choice of bolt-on tremolo guitars is far greater than that of neck-through, let alone set-neck. Which also means that most of your 'heroes' play those, so that's what you choose... and then you stick with it.

The Pat Metheny is a far more convincing example of a signature guitar, with its unique cutaways, which are also quite hard to produce.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Scali

No, the JEM was presented to the public first. That doesn't mean that Ibanez didn't plan the Roadstar all along.
As far as I know, Ibanez sent a few prototypes to Steve Vai, which convinced him that Ibanez was the company to build his signature guitar. Who's to say that these prototypes weren't already RG-style?


.

Because the first guitar they sent Steve was a Maxxus. Steve designed the JEM/RG. It has very little in common with the previous version of the Roadstar.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Ayrton

This is incorrect as the plate will distribute more pressure over a wider area than the four ferrules.

No, this is exactly what I mean. You distribute the pressure over the plate, but not as much over the wood. With the ferrules the pressure has no choice but to be transferred directly to the heart of the wood. Which is why it's so popular on basses.
You get 4 solid contact points, instead of one which is weakened because it's spread over a large area.

Originally Posted by Ayrton

Also the larger heel adds a bit of mass that will also affect sound.

Except that the heel is less part of the body. It's just a wobbly thingie sticking out in a weird way. The AANJ is in a more natural position relative to the cutaways and the body.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Rich

Because the first guitar they sent Steve was a Maxxus. Steve designed the JEM/RG. It has very little in common with the previous version of the Roadstar.

It doesn't? Apart from some slightly pointier horns, it's pretty much the same (and the headstock was already in use on various models, like the Pro Line). Just your average superstrat design.
And what were the second and third guitars they sent Steve?

But more on topic, why are you guys trying so hard to validate the bolt-on (and invalidate other joints)?

[jono]

Originally Posted by Scali

No, the JEM was presented to the public first. That doesn't mean that Ibanez didn't plan the Roadstar all along.
As far as I know, Ibanez sent a few prototypes to Steve Vai, which convinced him that Ibanez was the company to build his signature guitar. Who's to say that these prototypes weren't already RG-style?

You know wrong then Steve received a Maxxas guitar then worked with Ibanez based on his existing guitars including the Performance guitars he was using on tour with DLR to come up with the JEM. It’s well documented in a number of sources. I seem to recall Steve actually dropped by here to explain someof that.

Originally Posted by Scali

I doubt it. They used Strats because that's the only thing you could put a Floyd Rose on without too much hassle back in those days. I really don't think it's a very conscious choice for any of them.

I think you’re wrong. If they wanted to go stay with a different construction, they be using the Jackson Soloist, which had the Floyd. Steve had one, I’m sure Joe could have had one if he’d wanted. But they chose to go with the bolt on…