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JS (Satriani Model) Ibanez Guitars Discussion about JS (Joe Satriani Model) Ibanez Guitars

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  #1  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:12 PM
Oatman  is offline
 
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Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Or help me understand the frankenstein possibilities of the radius/JS family of guitars.
I have some part compatibility and general hardware confusion questions for various forms of the Radius/JS. I did do a lot of reading before posting, so Iím not totally inconsiderateÖ

1. Neck swappage. Other than the í93 Ė ish AANJ-Wizardized Radii; do all forms of the radius/JS have the same neck joint? How would I go about understanding what Ibanez neck/model options would be compatible? With regard to the AANJ versions of the radius (a dream I have) are all AANJ necks the same and therefore compatible? What else must I understand before collecting and frankensteining? For example Iíd guess that even though an old RG or some other model and a JS might have that same neck joint, but I wouldnít figure a 24 fret neck would fit in the 22 fret radius/JS. Any chance that the oiled 22 fret roadster 2 neck from my í86 RG440PB will fit a version of the radius?

2. Body types. As I understand it there are 4 body types: Original Radius which Iíve seen as í87 and í88 models. The refined radius that fist showed up in í88 and continued for a couple years (not sure how long). What became the JS model that has stuck. And finally the AANJ body that Iíve only seen as a í93 model, but may exist prior or subsequently. Am I close?

3. Necks. I know this has more or less been gone over (and over and overÖ) Ibanez has us all hopelessly confused with their inconsistency and lack of documentation. The ďultraĒ neck seems to have been slightly different from year to year and even within one model year not all ďultraĒ necks seem to have the same specks. Then there are the Viper neck(s), the multi-radius necks, and the Wizard necks. Iím not even sure sorting this out is possible. What I really want to know is what compatibility issues this may lead to (item 1)

4. Finally electronics. Iíve seen í87 models with the single 5-selector switch. Iíve seen í87 models with the three toggle switches. Iíve seen what I think was an í88 with both a 5-selector switch and three smaller toggle switches pushed toward the rear. Finally the single 3-selector switch we see with the JS today. Iím I leaving something out? Finally, do all incarnations of the Radii have coil taps? And how about hi-pass filters, which I think were only ever found on some JS models?

OK thanks! Iím hoping to find an AANJ radius and also a JS and play around with the hardware to find two nice complimentary axes. Iím sure Iíll never find an AANJ radius so Iíll probably try and get a second generation body (deeper cutouts but not all fat).

Thanks for the help and (hopefully) discussion.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2007, 10:02 PM
Gtr4000  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


*head explodes*
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2007, 02:55 AM
jazzedout  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


As far as I know, all square heel necks (pre-AANJ) on RGs Jems, S and radius guitars are interchangable with the same scale lenght. The 2 additional frets on the 24 fret necks come on an overhang behind the neck heel, so they do not affect the posistion of the heel.I know of a friend that put a 24 fret wizard neck on an old S body and he just cut the two last frets in order to clear the neck pickup.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:43 AM
DavyH  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


I don't mean to nitpick here (actually I do) but isn't the process involved here more one of vivsection than genetic engineering?

This could turn out to be a very interesting discussion - I'll watch with interest. Sorry I couldn't contribute more than the rubbish at the top of the post though.
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2007, 05:48 AM
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


*calling Frank Falbo... calling Frank Falbo*
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2007, 07:27 AM
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stratoskier  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Yo,

Welcome to the Radius club. Couple of quick notes, though I may add more later:

Item 1 - Neck swappage: I've done several JS/Radius swaps. I've modified a JS1000 neck to become an AANJ and installed it on my 93 AANJ Radius. No problems other than filling screw holes and reshaping the neck heel. I've also modified a 24-fret square heel neck off an RT650 to fit a JS700 body -- as noted by Jazzedout, you just whack off the extra two overhanging frets.

Be aware that there WERE some weird, elongated variants of the AANJ, including some of the early S models, the Maxxas and some others, but in general an AANJ has been pretty consistent. Also, unfortunately not all Ibanez square heel necks fit perfectly into the JS neck route -- I've had to bottom shim, side-shim and sand to get them to match. But those are minor adjustments, and in general all the square-heel Iby necks I've tried have been doable on a Radius body with some tweaking.

Item 3: Neck types: I have a number of early Ultras, and yes, they vary. That is also true of the early Wizards. Later on, there seemed to be greater consistency in neck specs. Again, these are minor differences, and an Ultra will always feel Ultra-like. Vipers came in both AANJ (eg, SV470, RV470...) and square heel incarnations (RT models..., others?). Those RT necks are a sweet match for both JS and Radius bodies, as would most other vintage style square heel necks.

4) Electronics: Be aware that there are a number of bastardized Radii floating around that have had switches added/deleted -- you may have seen some of those. I don't recall any that originally came with both a 5 (or 3) way switch AND the mini-toggles, though I've seen some with that mod. I think the catalogs (at Ibanez Rules) capture all the basic permutations. Can't recall if the early 540R had auto coil splitting in position 2, but mine don't have push-pull pots. At least one of my later ones does have a push-pull for manual splitting.

Those are some of the answers. As Nuno mentioned, the best Radius guru here is Frank, along with Ashley Bass (ashbass) -- like me, both of them have run through a lot of Radii.

Cheers,
Bert

Last edited by stratoskier; 10-10-2007 at 08:47 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:28 AM
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jb4674  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


This is an interesting discussion, it's just too bad I can't contribute to the knowledge base...

Jimmy
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2007, 07:05 PM
RedShiftRider  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


ooooohhhh, I am so glad someone started this. I have an '87 540R and an '05 JS and have always been curious about the interchangeability of their parts. I favor the JS neck, but I like the looks and sound of the R better (upgraded to hotter pickups). I'd like to put the JS neck and bridge (Edge Pro) on the R, but I can see I will need to do some routing for the bridge (the trem recess is very shallow on the R). Sounds like I could just put the JS neck on the R tho and keep the original edge trem (with saddle shims to match the JS radius).
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:00 AM
Oatman  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Wow, thanks so much for the responses.

Strato' - I'm real curious to hear more about how you went about the "tweaking" you describe. Especially fitting AANJ necks into square heal bodies - that's a whole world of possibilities I had never thought possible. I have real doubts about shimming and sanding well enough that I can have a properly set up and playing guitar. I really can't afford such projects as I describe, but I have friends in low places (I live around the corner from Bensalem shop). I also have access to an entire Lowes - Shop from hell (my brother may as well have a factory in his basement).

My first experiments will probably be on RG or Saber bodies I can pick up cheap. It may be a while before I can afford a radius to mess with.

Dreaming of a proline ebony neck and that oiled Roadstar neck I still love...

Is there a way to have a 24 fret radius? I'd happily omit a neck SC if clearance was the only remaining issue.

keep the ideas bouncin'
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:27 AM
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stratoskier  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Oops -- I must not have been clear:

Modifying a square-heel neck to fit an AANJ body IS doable. It involves sculpting the heel area of the neck into the AANJ shape. I just finished another one of those last week. In contrast, modifying an AANJ neck to fit on a square-heel body is NOT doable. Well, I suppose it could be done, but it would require some advanced woodworking skills to splice new wood onto the AANJ neck (at least more advanced than I'm capable of!).

You could certainly fit a 24-fret neck (for example, one from an RT as I mentioned above, or most any other standard heel neck) onto a Radius body, providing that 1) the extra frets are "overhanging" and 2) the heel is in the traditional location relative to the frets. There are MANY threads, including some recent ones, about this operation. But, yes, you'd either have to sacrifice the neck SC or move it out of the way to avoid a collision with the overhanging fretboard.

The tweaking I described is just fine tuning to make the neck angle and fit exactly right. This is often the case when matching up non-original neck-to-body pairs.

My advice? -- 1) If you really want an AANJ Radius, find someone to make an AANJ Radius/JS body, buy a square-heel neck from Warmoth or another supplier, and convert the neck into AANJ shape. You and your brother could do that.

or...

2) Just buy a nice old Radius and be forever happy. To my surprise, I hardly notice that I'm not playing an AANJ when I play mine. The angled body sculpt at the heel is nice just the way it is. I do have one of the original, quasi-rare 93 AANJ Radius, but I found that having the AANJ ain't all that big a deal.

Cheers,
Bert
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  #11  
Old 10-12-2007, 07:51 AM
horstausmforst  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oatman View Post
1. Neck swappage. [..] Any chance that the oiled 22 fret roadster 2 neck from my í86 RG440PB will fit a version of the radius?
As stated before, you should be able to swap necks with square heeled sabers and power models. For square heeled rg necks, you'll have to remove the highest two frets from the neck or remove your neck pickup. As for the 440 neck, you might have to re-drill the holes in the neck since the radius (saber and power, too) has an angled heel wich (anyone correct me if i'm wrong) didn't appear before '87.

Also, in my opinion, the aanj radius models are way overrated. The aanj introduction was a greater "step forward" on the 24 fret models (rg, jem, ... ) than on the 22 fret guitars, since the whole neck heel assembly was completely moved towards the bridge on the 24-fretters, rather than just reshaped as on the 22-fretters. Which is also the reason you can't retrofit a 22 fret aanj guitar with a neck of a 24 fret aanj guitar.

Quote:
2. Body types. [..] The refined radius that fist showed up in í88 and continued for a couple years (not sure how long). What became the JS model that has stuck. And finally the AANJ body that Iíve only seen as a í93 model, but may exist prior or subsequently. Am I close?
Each radius body is different because of the hand sanding involved creating one. What I can confirm is that the cutaways were enlarged in '88, making the body looking sleeker than the '87 one.
But: my '88 radius, '93 radius and '92 JS have very similar body shapes (apart from the aanj on the '93 and the angled output jack on the js of course) - which is something I had many discussions about in the past on these boards. I have read about great differences and have also seen pics of a very "thick" looking, almost un-carved '92 model, but my guitars seem to show that, in the end, it all comes down to how each guitar was hand sanded.

Quote:
The ďultraĒ neck seems to have been slightly different from year to year..
The '88 ultra neck I have is the thickest ibanez neck I've ever played on - which is a very nice thing in my opinion, but (as everything) comes down to personal preference. My '93 ultra neck is thinner, as is the JS neck. The 2 latter ones do feel very different, but this is caused by the much rounder fretboard radius of the js. profile-wise, they are almost identical.

Quote:
4. Finally electronics. Iíve seen í87 models with the single 5-selector switch. Iíve seen í87 models with the three toggle switches. Iíve seen what I think was an í88 with both a 5-selector switch and three smaller toggle switches pushed toward the rear. Finally the single 3-selector switch we see with the JS today. Iím I leaving something out? Finally, do all incarnations of the Radii have coil taps? And how about hi-pass filters, which I think were only ever found on some JS models?
I think the coil tap was only existent in HH-models, while my HSH and HSS models featured a standard 5-way RG wiring.

Interesting fact: The '92 and '93 HSH JS1 models didn't have a push pull coil tap either, although the catalogues state the opposite. They had a wiring you get by combining a standard jem diagram with a high pass filter on the tone knob. (I think the filter is hardwired on the jems)

Quote:
OK thanks! Iím hoping to find an AANJ radius and also a JS and play around with the hardware to find two nice complimentary axes. Iím sure Iíll never find an AANJ radius so Iíll probably try and get a second generation body (deeper cutouts but not all fat).
Good luck!

Last edited by horstausmforst; 10-12-2007 at 07:58 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2007, 04:49 PM
frankfalbo  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


The only thing not discussed is that there are some Wizards out there (from Sabers) that have an angle cut into the neck heel. Putting those necks on a Radius (or other guitar with a flat neck) will require raising the bridge. But the bigger issue is that all the standard neck heels are a littel different. You could put one neck on another body and find that the strings don't quite run down the center. I also have some necks that are loose or tight (and don't fit without sanding) in other bodies.

If you have any specific questions I can try to follow this thread. Everything is right on so far. I can clarify that 1987 was the 3 mini toggles and 1988 was the 5-way. If you see a guitar with both it has been drilled, and if you see a 1987 with a 5-way it's 99% certain that it's been neck and/or neckplate swapped, maybe by some of the people mentioned in this thread!

Otherwise you're talking about all the things that have brought me little bursts of happiness since my first Radius purchase in 1988. Have fun and don't ruin anything for the rest of us when you're ready to trade and sell. (so no routing for three humbuckers or anything like that)
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:57 PM
Oatman  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Frank - your post is a perfect segue into my post.

Anyone know Herc Fede from Fededesigns? He's in the Philly area and does swirly paint jobs. I'm sure many examples of his beautiful work show up 'round these parts. Anyway from him I have completed a dream weekend. Candy apple red Radius 540r, or r540, or rg540r, or ... well that's kinda the problem. No serial. The neck plate has been replaced. I think the neck isn't original either. Not that I really care, it's beautiful and everything is in great shape. Just needs a good set-up... Anyway Thanks Herc!

So it's an angled square heel, and has the deeper cutouts to better access the up the neck. 5 position HSS config. Definitely not an '87-'88. Well could be late '88, but I think it's '89-'90. '91 and later get's the AANJ yes?

The neck is very wizardly. NOT an Ultra AFAIK. compared to my RG320FM with the 3 piece maple prestige wizard 2 the radius neck is narrower at all points from nut through 12th fret to heal. It is also seems thinner and with a smaller radius to the neck. Frets seem identical. And it has the tiny little dot inlays like my '86 RG440PB roadstar 2. This neck is one piece maple with a relatively thick shiny clear varnish, not sanded smooth almost unfinished like the RG320 prestige. In addition to being one piece maple type neck it has the separated fused type headstock... sorry if that sounds confusing I don't know the jargon. This neck is tiny. I don't like it at all. Perhaps it just takes getting used to. The fretboard doesn't feel as flat (as in unround) as wizards I'm familiar with. The neck radius is also smaller and rounder than any wizard I've played. But it is about as thin. Both narrow and thin, it's frickin' tiny! All the wizards I've played seem much wider accross, even wider than my wizard 2 on the rg320, and all those wizards were also flatter both on the fingerboard and back of neck in terms of radius. wierd. I can only guess that it's not an original neck, but I don't remember ever coming across a neck like this.

my new family portrait


neck - head join


neck2


Fit's like a glove in a J-craft JS1000 case


boggie in red
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:44 AM
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stratoskier  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Looks beautiful, Oatman!

With regards to the type of neck, if you remove it, you should find some code letters stamped on the heel:
UALRL = Ultra, Angled headstock, Locknut, Rosewood, Large frets
WALRJ = Wizard, Angled headstock, Locknut, Rosewood, Jumbo frets

I also have some notes about the inlay codes: T=Teeth, O=Oval, and Z=Zero(dots). I can't recall if I've ever seen those inlay codes myself.

I didn't figure that stuff out: credit goes to Rich and other forum members for cracking the codes.

Cheers,
Bert
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2007, 04:32 PM
Oatman  is offline
 
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Re: Genetic engineering possibilities with Genus Radius/JS?


Been playing the **** out of this and my new Boogie DC5 all week and this neck is really growing on me.

Initially I hated it, never really liked the extreme thin, flat, wide wizard necks. But this one was thin AND narrow. Very strange. It badly needs a set up, the action is all ****ed up. It buzzes all over the place and the sustain and tone is therefore killed. I'm not sure if it's just too low, or just a bad botched set up.

Anyway, that aside, the neck is starting to feel really good. It is a very nice compliment to my other two electrics. It plays wicked fast, and I can much more easily play big stretch stuff, like message in a bottle for example, and sweeps and arpeggios. And I guess because of the ****ed up action it has such a light touch. Lighter than any guitar I've ever played. I don't really have to fret any notes, so much as just graze them. It's a totally different feel and I'm not used to it, but I'm starting to like it. Totally different personality in every way from my other guitars, both in feel and sound.

Ahh, the sound. The "IBZUSA" pickups lead me to believe it's an '88, as by '89 they were stamped IBZUSA C1 or IBZUSA C3 or whatever. I absolutely love the single coils. Totally different "strat-like" rhythm sound at the neck position. I found a sweet early to middle Peter Townshand Who sound straight away. He did play mesa boogies after all so no surprise there. My RG doesn't come close with it's INF3 and 4 PUPs.

Now the bridge Hummer, that's another story. I just can't get it to sound good. Now I'm new to this amp, and I know mesa's are notorious for being finicky to dial in tone, but I just can't get anything but utter **** from this IBZUSA humbucker. I love the tones I get out of the INF4 bridge PUP. Hate this one. I think I'm swapping it out for an experiment. A Mo' Joe, or Steve Special, or Breed or something. I have to decide what kind of personality I want for each of my guitars. I think the RG will be my high output death axe, but I'm liking the pickups enough that I may not want to **** with them... My Roadstar is probably going to get a D-Tuna from swapping back and forth to drop D, since that trem has no float anyway. So I'll probably put in a crazy Bridge pickup for chunky metal rhythm.

Anyway it's been fun. I still don't believe the Ibanez published specs for the neck.

It says 42mm at the nut, and 56 at fret 22. My wizard 2 on my RG320 is 43mm at nut. And the are both about the same thickness.

No way it only 1mm narrower, and it is definitely thinner. 1mm is less than 1/16 of an inch, no way I'd notice it so much. So I give up on that, but whatever, perhaps this neck is just out of spec and came off the line a little weird. Feels like a wizard like 17mm at the nut and 20mm at 12, and more like 40m or 41mm wide. But whatever.

Anyone know where I can find electrical specs for the IBZUSA and INF3 and INF4 pickups? I would like to compare the outputs and such to what I'm looking to swap with before I buy.

thanks all!

Last edited by Oatman; 10-19-2007 at 04:32 PM. Reason: can't spell.
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