JS 1000 or JS 1200 for beginner

[Mike239]

I think the best idea is for the orignial poster to go to his local music shop, and find an ibanez with a Wizard II neck and play around with it, if he can find an actual JS 1000/1200 then great if not the Wizard II is his best bet, since it is only 1mm thinner than the JS 1000 and 1200. That way he can get a "rough" idea of what the neck is going to be like. So he won't have any false thoughts when he buys it.

Better yet forget the JS for now and go into a music shop (or many, the more the merrier), and try out as many different guitars as possible (Ibanez non ibanez), and find which one Plays great and you like the look of. You don't have to start out with a high level guitar maybe something mid range, many of the RG's are excellent guitars and will last years until you can save up for the JS. But i cannot stress enough find a guitar that YOU are comfortable with, if you have a guitar that has super high action, super thick neck, and it pokes you in the ribs, you wont want to play it, it'll end up collecting dust and you will lose you desire to learn the guitar. So find something that YOU like.

[richard1973]

its all taste really, i like the 1200 better (only going by looks as I've not played either, but i presume they are the same?)


(edit!! didnt realise there was a page 2 my answer was to go with...

'
In what way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
I like the 1000 a little better than the 1200...'

meh I should be blonde

[Scali]

I think the difference is the neck pickup? 1200 having a PAF Joe, the 1000 having a PAF Pro?

[Jemface]

You can get some really, really great prices for secondhand JS1000s' as low as about £450 if you're lucky.

Are they suitable for beginners? I would say no, as they have a Floyd, which is hell for anyone with relatively little experience with guitars. Far better would be a used JS2000.

[Dino]

Well on that side of the pond the JS 1000 can be had in BTB, and I am not particularly fond of the CA red color. Also the pickups are different, I like the original pickups Joe has used for years PAF instead of PAF Joe and there is a new bridge pickup called the Mo' Joe that I am not excited about. JS 1000 with a Fred and PAF, maybe a JS 2000 if you are a beginner and don't want the nightmare bridge problems.

BTW I have owned all of these guitars and the neck is a great shape, not too thick, not too thin.

[legendeath]

Originally Posted by Dino

if you are a beginner and don't want the nightmare bridge problems.

Yes. I believe that beginners should start out with out a trem. I started without one and it made me get into the vibrato.

Also I believe that D/L trems are a pain to maintain. I could imagine it much worse for someone who is just starting. Plus I always think a beginner would rather just hammer on that all day rather than practice. Theoretically pushing on a bar is much easier than learning music.

That's just my opinion.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by chris101

Dino: "I like the 1000 a little better than the 1200..." Please explain!?

Aw! C'Mon Man! I played both and the red one just sounded better.

Can't you tell?!!!!!

[Oatman]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Aw! C'Mon Man! I played both and the red one just sounded better.

Can't you tell?!!!!!

Red ones go fasta'!

Originally Posted by P. Scali

This is YOUR problem, not the guitar's problem.
You are making your wrist hurt by playing in the wrong position. Millions of players play Les Pauls every day. Even women, with small hands, and they too can do bar chords. A lot of them even play nylon string classicals.
In fact, one of the best classical virtuosos of our time is a Chinese woman by the name of Li Jie. Talk about small hands! Does it limit her ability to play? Heck no, she has technique. Look her up on Youtube, you won't be disappointed.

Next you'll be saying we should learn to read music and not use tab.

I totally agree with you Scali. I'm taking lessons again in my mid 30's decades after learning all the wrong habits for years as a lazy kid in my teens. First things my teacher pounded into me was 'propper' picking technique and position and posture. It was a few steps backward for a while, but it is starting to pay dividends. One can always choose to break the rules later, but learning and mastering w/in the rules first is worthwhile imo. I'm also finding secondary dominance resolutions/modulations and modal exercises are finally allowing me to learn the fretboard and their fun too. I've always been held back by not really knowing the notes on the fretboard backwards and forwards.

[twooos]

Originally Posted by legendeath

Yes. I believe that beginners should start out with out a trem. I started without one and it made me get into the vibrato.

Also I believe that D/L trems are a pain to maintain. I could imagine it much worse for someone who is just starting. Plus I always think a beginner would rather just hammer on that all day rather than practice. Theoretically pushing on a bar is much easier than learning music.

That's just my opinion.

I agree.

I Think the T/S should go for a JS without a tremolo at first, to improve his vibrato technique, and spend more time PLAYING, rather than twiddle around with the tuning and general maintenance of a Floyd Rose type tremolo.

Ive been playing for about 2 years now, so you could say im a beginner, and i tried to steer clear of D/L trems (apart from that time i splashed out on an RG3120, couldnt resist, but sold it a week later due to the trem pissing me off), and stick with fixed bridges for now, until you have your techniques down.

Look at my videos on youtube, i can say pretty confidentley that over these 2 years i have improved my vibrato and other techniques, and i STILL use a hard-tail (Im also going to buy a JS1000 soon, but i'd rather work on everything to perfection until i have the time to repeatedly set-up a guitar).

Hope this helps.

Oh yeah the links to my videos are www.youtube.com/twooos

[twooos]

Originally Posted by Scali

Thin necks are bad for beginners. Thick necks are good.

Thats subjective. The first guitar i bought was a copy strat, the neck was so thick to me back then, i bought a Jackson JS series, really nice, thin necks. That improved my technique and playing much more than the strat with the thick neck did. But i have relatively small hands, it can differ from person to person.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by twooos

Thats subjective. The first guitar i bought was a copy strat, the neck was so thick to me back then, i bought a Jackson JS series, really nice, thin necks. That improved my technique and playing much more than the strat with the thick neck did. But i have relatively small hands, it can differ from person to person.

Question is: did you end up with proper technique?
I mean, the whole "This neck is too big!"-issue is nonsense, if you ask me. There are people playing on 7-strings and 8-strings, or these nylon-sting guitars with really huge necks...
Are their hands SO much bigger than yours that they can play on so much larger necks without a problem? I doubt it.

The point is that you need to learn proper technique, so that neck thickness doesn't matter. Which means, learn the technique, and you can play on a 'thick' neck like a Les Paul or Strat easily (as most guitarists do... Gibson and Fender are still more popular than Ibanez, Jackson and all those others, if you ask me).
So what are you saying?
Is it "I bought a guitar with a thin neck, and learnt proper technique anyway"?.
I never disagreed with that (how can I, I myself bought an Ibanez RG with Wizard II neck after about 2 years of playing. I played an Epi Les Paul before that, and still do, and the neck was never an issue), but if you have the technique and can play a thick neck, it's hardly a good case for buying a guitar with a thin neck.
Or is it "I bought a guitar with a thin neck, because I don't have the proper technique, and this guitar lets me get away with it"?
In which case I wonder to what extent you can get away with it? Sure, you can play some simple pentatonic licks that way, and I myself do use my thumb over the neck for added stability with certain bends and vibrato... But for bigger stretches and faster sequences, arpeggio's etc, you pretty much HAVE to put your thumb behind the neck, else it's just not humanly possible to play that sort of stuff. So are you seriously advising others to limit their playing by using bad technique... just because you don't play that sort of stuff? I think we first need to figure out if the others are interested in playing that sort of stuff before we let them learn technique in a way that they will never be able to.

[richard1973]

I cant see it making a difference getting a floating or fixed bridge, having a floating wont stop anyone learning vibrato and other techniques, its not like a floating trem stops the need for any other technique, ok novelty wise it may keep him amused for a few hours when he first gets it, but it wont take over his playing.

He's already owned a les paul for 10 yrs so no point getting another fixed bridge if a trem is what he wants.

As for restringing, ok its more a mess on to begin with but once you've changed them a couple of times its ok.

I say go for the JS its the guitar you want, no need to settle on a guitar you dont really want all because of changing strings for the first few times is a bit more time consuming. Plus its not like your 5yrs old where all youll be doing all day long as using the whammy bar up and down going 'WEEEEEEEE'

[twooos]

Didnt know about the "les paul for 10 years" bit. Trust me, none-double-locking trem guitars are much easier to vibrato on (strat, PRS, some Suhrs).

And Scali, yeah i have proper technique, nobody has said otherwise, (yet).

You dont HAVE to put your thumb on the neck if you dont want to, loads of players dont, un-common though.

What im saying that in my case, it was easier for me to practise on a thin-necked guitar, im not saying thats the case for everyone.

And by thick/thin necked, i think he means the radius, not the width (you can have really thin 7/8 string guitar necks).

To the T/S: To answer your original question, if you have the time and patience to have to tune/intonate/set-up the JS a NUMEROUS amount of times, get the JS. Its a great guitar.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by twooos

And Scali, yeah i have proper technique, nobody has said otherwise, (yet).

You dont HAVE to put your thumb on the neck if you dont want to, loads of players dont, un-common though.

As I say, it depends on how big your hands are, and what you're trying to play.
This is Jemsite after all, and most people here play Ibanez or similar guitars, and are into Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, John Petrucci and all that lot.
If you want to play what they're playing, you pretty much have to be able to play with the thumb behind the neck (not that you have to do it all the time... they don't, I don't. But for some stuff you have no choice).

Hendrix got away with his thumb around the neck because he had huge hands, and only played relatively simple blueslicks.
But that was back in the 60s. Things have changed since then. There have been players like John McLaughlin, Al DiMeola, Eddie van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Yngwie Malmsteen, and ofcourse Ibanez' own Joe Satriani and Steve Vai.

Michael Angelo put it this way: You can't play 90s licks with 60s technique. That makes a lot of sense, doesn't it (even if you may not like the guy).
If you want to play Hendrix or Clapton licks, then you could get away with your thumb over the neck... they themselves do it aswell, and their licks are very limited in terms of stretches and speed and all that.

But if you want to do eg the arpeggio tapping of Van Halen or Rhoads, you don't have a choice. They will have sequences with stretches from the 5th to the 10th fret or so. Something you'd never find in the works of Hendrix or Clapton or whoever.
You'd need exceptionally large hands to pull that off with your thumb around the neck (I can't, even with my not-so-small hands and my superthin 1995 Wizard II neck.. but with my thumb behind the neck, I can do it even on my Les Paul and on my 7-string S with ease). It's just human physiology. Just try it. Have your hand flat, thumb beside your fingers and stretch your index finger and pinky.
Now put your thumb behind your fingers and move it upwards, as if you were wrapping it around the neck. Your fingers will automatically pull together, because your tendons will become stressed. This is also why it hurts. You are trying to do something that is physically impossible.

I think people who are attracted to Ibanez JS or Jem guitars, and go to a site named Jemsite, are generally more interested in the '90s licks' than in the '60s licks'.
Mind you, even those 60s licks were played on 'big' necks, because Ibanez and other brands with thin necks didn't exist yet.

So well, it's just a fact of human physiology that the thumb needs to be behind the neck for the least chance of over-stretching and pain. Ignore it at your own peril.
The guy says he's in pain, logical conclusion is that he's ignoring this fact.

Originally Posted by twooos

And by thick/thin necked, i think he means the radius, not the width (you can have really thin 7/8 string guitar necks).

I know, but that doesn't matter, does it? The point is that the only way to play on such big necks is with your thumb behind it, because you can't wrap it around anyway... well some players might, but not as well as on a 6-string.

[piccyman]

Thank you for all your advice, I have now decided on the Ibanez RGT320Q, I like the look of it, and hopefully i will get to try it out before i order it.