Custom 8-string Iceman - Meshuggah!

[mrjakob69]

Originally Posted by MFB

Well, when you only have 6 strings you can do things like : E, Eb, D, Db, C, B, and A tunings, and have them be fine. But with 7 strings you can have E tuning with a low B, D tuning with a low A, etc..

Now with 8 you have the option of doing a normal 7 string tuning with either :

An extra low note or an even higher note, say in E tuning plus the low B and a high A, you see? OR! You can do E, B, G, D, A, E, B, Gb to get super crazy low, and that's only in standard tuning. So say someone naturally plays in C tuning ok? Respectively it would go something like :

C, G, Eb, Bb, F, C right? Well, with the 8 string when you add those two extra low strings you're now looking at : C, G, Eb, Bb, F, C, G, F (that F might be wrong) but do you see the point?

You have two extra strings to work with, so unless you tune a 6 string to the point where you play with rubber bands as your standard, you can't match those notes as on the 8 string

ya and the fact of the gague of string you are dealing with a bass e and a six string e are much different in tonality, and an 8 has the a? from a bass ass the 8th string so naturally you can get something heavier just from the gague of sting.

[Of Angels]

Originally Posted by Murder Soul

I would like to know how 8 strings scientifically get heavier tones.



Your point contradicts itself. You're telling me to shut up, saying you can do whatever you want. I can do whatever I want. At least I'm right about what I am talking about.

He said they scientifically get lower tones. The only assumption to be made from that statement is the correct one - that 8 strings are built to better hold LOWER tunings, not heavier tunings. Don't you know that heavy is an attitude, not a sound? Haha, or something, anyway.


...and in an argument, both sides believe themselves to be correct... so what are you saying that you're right for?

JFAC are a semi-popular scene band that sprung forth from a hardcore/metalcore scene that was beginning to embrace grindcore. Their riffs are very much in the vein of some of the more revered Death Metal bands, and have very little to do with Hardcore. Just because they're "scene" and just because people like them, doesn't make them a hardcore band. Besides, who the **** cares? I certainly don't, because that band will never put out anything original sounding.






An 8 string guitar has a MUCH different feel than a 6 string, just like a 7 string. For me, it's worthwhile to spend time with these instruments. We're humans, and the various extents of our experience are most immediately processed through our five senses. Touch/feel is one of those senses, and therefore, a creative endeavour such as writing music can be greatly effected by the type of instrument being played. Do you not all prefer to write music on a nice guitar as opposed to an inferior one? Thus, the same can be said about the overall shape and feel of an instrument in some cases. With that said - I enjoy extended range instrument, because they feel much different, and inspire differently. There's nothing wrong with 6 strings, but there's no harm whatsoever in using a few more.

[Murder Soul]

Originally Posted by MFB

Well, when you only have 6 strings you can do things like : E, Eb, D, Db, C, B, and A tunings, and have them be fine. But with 7 strings you can have E tuning with a low B, D tuning with a low A, etc..

Now with 8 you have the option of doing a normal 7 string tuning with either :

An extra low note or an even higher note, say in E tuning plus the low B and a high A, you see? OR! You can do E, B, G, D, A, E, B, Gb to get super crazy low, and that's only in standard tuning. So say someone naturally plays in C tuning ok? Respectively it would go something like :

C, G, Eb, Bb, F, C right? Well, with the 8 string when you add those two extra low strings you're now looking at : C, G, Eb, Bb, F, C, G, F (that F might be wrong) but do you see the point?

You have two extra strings to work with, so unless you tune a 6 string to the point where you play with rubber bands as your standard, you can't match those notes as on the 8 string

You buy larger strings. You can tune a 6 that low, you just have to buy bigger gauge strings. I don't like pantera, but I found this via youtube the other day, on the song "Sandblasted skin (I think), Dimebag tunes to GGCFAD, The 6th string is in G, and octave below the G on the 5th string. Basically D standard, with the D dropped off to a G. He did this on a 6. 6 string means just that, the number of strings. You can tune it to whatever you want.

Originally Posted by Of Angels

He said they scientifically get lower tones. The only assumption to be made from that statement is the correct one - that 8 strings are built to better hold LOWER tunings, not heavier tunings. Don't you know that heavy is an attitude, not a sound? Haha, or something, anyway.

A 6 string holds 6 strings, and 8, 8. You can tune either however you want.

Originally Posted by Of Angels

...and in an argument, both sides believe themselves to be correct... so what are you saying that you're right for?

Because you told me to shut up, then said you could do whatever you want. But this is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Of Angels

JFAC are a semi-popular scene band that sprung forth from a hardcore/metalcore scene that was beginning to embrace grindcore. Their riffs are very much in the vein of some of the more revered Death Metal bands, and have very little to do with Hardcore. Just because they're "scene" and just because people like them, doesn't make them a hardcore band. Besides, who the **** cares? I certainly don't, because that band will never put out anything original sounding.

I agree that they suck, but deathcore is not metal.

Originally Posted by Of Angels

An 8 string guitar has a MUCH different feel than a 6 string, just like a 7 string. For me, it's worthwhile to spend time with these instruments. We're humans, and the various extents of our experience are most immediately processed through our five senses. Touch/feel is one of those senses, and therefore, a creative endeavour such as writing music can be greatly effected by the type of instrument being played. Do you not all prefer to write music on a nice guitar as opposed to an inferior one? Thus, the same can be said about the overall shape and feel of an instrument in some cases. With that said - I enjoy extended range instrument, because they feel much different, and inspire differently. There's nothing wrong with 6 strings, but there's no harm whatsoever in using a few more.

No harm, but no real point either. Although some of these ERG's and ERB get so ridiculous that you'll get carpal tunnel stretching your hand to play the low notes.

I do agree that playing is influenced by what instrument is being played. For whatever reason, the majority of the 7 string bands and the 8 (Meshuggah) seem to only play the lowest notes, while the lower tuned 6'ers play it like a normal guitar.

I will admit though, 8's do look kinda cool on super strats. And I love the way 7's and 8's look with all the tuners inline (I like big headstocks). Just adding lower strings doesn't make much sense to me, because you can drop the lowest string and octave, and still have all of the same range, but with some better low end.

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Murder Soul

Metal is metal. A tool? I think not. If I hold an orange in my hand, and call it an apple, is it an apple? No.
As for narrowing down a real metal band, just use your ears. If you claim to listen to any punk (or hardcore), than you can obviously tell that jfac is a corrupt form of hardcore.

I would like to know how 8 strings scientifically get heavier tones.



Your point contradicts itself. You're telling me to shut up, saying you can do whatever you want. I can do whatever I want. At least I'm right about what I am talking about.

You're an idiot. Tell me some defining attributes of metal. I'm sure I can listen to hundreds of metal bands and the only common ingredients will usually be distorted guitars. Heavy metal was first coine to describe Hendrix for gods sake. Now he's heavy blues or rock. Same can be said of Black Sabbath. If a band like sabbath came out today and released an album it would be classed as heavy rock.

You're 'use your ears' comment is just a cop out to avoid the fact that neither you nor anyone else can make a definition of metal that is 100% accurate. Hell, even with something like symphony X or the Black Mages, theres arguments for and against being metal, or being symphonic rock.

As for apples and oranges, that doesnt even apply here.


Scientifically getting heavier tones doesnt apply either. As said, its lower tones, which by handy coincidence are percieved by the human ear as having more impact, thus aiding in the 'heavy' bass heavy sounds of many bands, along with double bass drums and guttural vocals.


Also, you're an immature sonovabitch if you think there is any 'RIGHT' about any music. Theres only differing opinions and viewpoints. Throughout this thread you'e been saying you're 'RIGHT' or someone else is wrong. THe only thing wrong here is that you're trying to apply absolutes to something that has a different meaning from every angle.

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Now playing: Phil Keaggy - Courts of the King
via FoxyTunes

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Murder Soul

You buy larger strings. You can tune a 6 that low, you just have to buy bigger gauge strings. I don't like pantera, but I found this via youtube the other day, on the song "Sandblasted skin (I think), Dimebag tunes to GGCFAD, The 6th string is in G, and octave below the G on the 5th string. Basically D standard, with the D dropped off to a G. He did this on a 6. 6 string means just that, the number of strings. You can tune it to whatever you want.

A 6 string holds 6 strings, and 8, 8. You can tune either however you want.

Because you told me to shut up, then said you could do whatever you want. But this is irrelevant.

I agree that they suck, but deathcore is not metal.







No harm, but no real point either. Although some of these ERG's and ERB get so ridiculous that you'll get carpal tunnel stretching your hand to play the low notes.

I do agree that playing is influenced by what instrument is being played. For whatever reason, the majority of the 7 string bands and the 8 (Meshuggah) seem to only play the lowest notes, while the lower tuned 6'ers play it like a normal guitar.

I will admit though, 8's do look kinda cool on super strats. And I love the way 7's and 8's look with all the tuners inline (I like big headstocks). Just adding lower strings doesn't make much sense to me, because you can drop the lowest string and octave, and still have all of the same range, but with some better low end.

Actually dimebag tuned to a range of different tunings, from standard down to that. It tends to get lower with each album, but its also a fact they still played those old songs live and tuned differently throughout a set as a result. As for the heaviers trings, sure you can, but that changes the tone of the instrument. Some people, like Michael Romeo actualyl use this to great effect, using a tuning a step down to aid in his very bright tones tightness.

Besides that, you're still doing it. You cannot define what is and is not a 'metal band'. A lot of people would saySlipknot are a metal band, a lot of people would say they arent. Which one of them is right? NEITHER OF THEM.

Why? Because theres no defined single way to be a metal band. You can't say 'OH this band used a Gb7th chord with a clean tone in this bar' and pretend that means jack **** about how metal they are. Its ****ing stupid.


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Now playing: Queens of the Stone Age - Mosquito Song (Hidden Track)
via FoxyTunes

[Ruggo]

Why the hostility?

Some guitar players play 8 strings, some 7,some 6. Wheres the problem? Meshuggah are one of the best metal things since Cynic in 91! Only band thats been more inovative and amazing is/are Spastic Ink/Blotted Science.

Honestly ive seen a 16 string guitars and if someone could play it creating something interesting why not?

[mrjakob69]

all i know is that if vai started playing 8 strings today alot of people here would shut up, its a matter of taste and musical ability to push the envelope, with more strings tuned to how the **** ever you have more options for your fingers to go and more notes to be played, lets take a messugah song and transcribe it to a 6 string in standard, if its even doable and i bet you will have about 15 fret stretches, they use what they use to make there music you use what you use, and lets all try to find a happy place in the middle.

[MFB]

Have you heard the new Cynic? It's amazing

As for this thread, I'm out of it cause it's getting redundant

[Of Angels]

Originally Posted by Murder Soul

Because you told me to shut up, then said you could do whatever you want. But this is irrelevant.

I said no such thing - that was somebody else.

Originally Posted by Murder Soul

I agree that they suck, but deathcore is not metal.

It is metal. If you don't like it, it's not metal that you like. It's not metal that I like. It IS metal though. What is it, then? "Crap"? Yes, but that's not a genre classification.

Originally Posted by Murder Soul

No harm, but no real point either. Although some of these ERG's and ERB get so ridiculous that you'll get carpal tunnel stretching your hand to play the low notes.

I do agree that playing is influenced by what instrument is being played. For whatever reason, the majority of the 7 string bands and the 8 (Meshuggah) seem to only play the lowest notes, while the lower tuned 6'ers play it like a normal guitar.

I will admit though, 8's do look kinda cool on super strats. And I love the way 7's and 8's look with all the tuners inline (I like big headstocks). Just adding lower strings doesn't make much sense to me, because you can drop the lowest string and octave, and still have all of the same range, but with some better low end.

Once again, the idea, for me at least, is in the shape/size/feel of the instrument. You making mention of others who tune 6 stringers low holds no ground in response to what I said. My point is that those carpal tunnel inducing instruments have longer scales, which provide different tonal characteristics and the propensity to sound tighter with lower tunings. While Meshuggah, in my opinion, makes boring use of the low strings, and not much else, who's to say that they would have wrote their most recent albums without those 8 strings? Creativity is something that knows no boundaries, and it is indeed wrong to try to form them, regardless of whether or not you approve of whatever it is you want to criticize.

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Of Angels

It is metal. If you don't like it, it's not metal that you like. It's not metal that I like. It IS metal though. What is it, then? "Crap"? Yes, but that's not a genre classification.

I wouldn't even try discussing this. You're dealing with someone who actually cares about the miniscule genre differences between one 'Fill-in-the-blank-Core' band and the other.

[Of Angels]

That very same thing ran through my head through the duration of typing my last response up... for some reason, I hit submit anyway.

[GuitarBizarre]

ah well.

[Ruggo]

Yes ive heard the new Cynic stuff. SOme song alredy last year on Brztal Assault in Czech Republic.

Not to be completely offtopic:

I rather see Meshuggah use the 8 strings and invent riffs like the one in Bleed and other crazy stuff, than the mainstream rock/metal stuff from today.

Also Jason Carter uses a harp guitar and hits amazing music so why not psuh the limits?

[Lefty Robb]

[Murder Soul]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

You're an idiot. Tell me some defining attributes of metal. I'm sure I can listen to hundreds of metal bands and the only common ingredients will usually be distorted guitars. Heavy metal was first coine to describe Hendrix for gods sake. Now he's heavy blues or rock. Same can be said of Black Sabbath. If a band like sabbath came out today and released an album it would be classed as heavy rock.

You're 'use your ears' comment is just a cop out to avoid the fact that neither you nor anyone else can make a definition of metal that is 100% accurate. Hell, even with something like symphony X or the Black Mages, theres arguments for and against being metal, or being symphonic rock.

As for apples and oranges, that doesnt even apply here.


Scientifically getting heavier tones doesnt apply either. As said, its lower tones, which by handy coincidence are percieved by the human ear as having more impact, thus aiding in the 'heavy' bass heavy sounds of many bands, along with double bass drums and guttural vocals.


Also, you're an immature sonovabitch if you think there is any 'RIGHT' about any music. Theres only differing opinions and viewpoints. Throughout this thread you'e been saying you're 'RIGHT' or someone else is wrong. THe only thing wrong here is that you're trying to apply absolutes to something that has a different meaning from every angle.

Deathcore uses breakdowns. By your definition, every band that uses distortion is a metal band.
As for the lower notes argument, go listen to Pestilence. They tune to standard I believe, and they're still heavier.

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Actually dimebag tuned to a range of different tunings, from standard down to that. It tends to get lower with each album, but its also a fact they still played those old songs live and tuned differently throughout a set as a result. As for the heaviers trings, sure you can, but that changes the tone of the instrument. Some people, like Michael Romeo actualyl use this to great effect, using a tuning a step down to aid in his very bright tones tightness.

Besides that, you're still doing it. You cannot define what is and is not a 'metal band'. A lot of people would saySlipknot are a metal band, a lot of people would say they arent. Which one of them is right? NEITHER OF THEM.

Why? Because theres no defined single way to be a metal band. You can't say 'OH this band used a Gb7th chord with a clean tone in this bar' and pretend that means jack **** about how metal they are. Its ****ing stupid.

I know Dime used a bunch of tunings, I was just using that one as an example.

A metal band is a metal band. Do some research.

Originally Posted by Ruggo

Why the hostility?

Some guitar players play 8 strings, some 7,some 6. Wheres the problem? Meshuggah are one of the best metal things since Cynic in 91! Only band thats been more inovative and amazing is/are Spastic Ink/Blotted Science.

Honestly ive seen a 16 string guitars and if someone could play it creating something interesting why not?

Uh...

Originally Posted by mrjakob69

all i know is that if vai started playing 8 strings today alot of people here would shut up, its a matter of taste and musical ability to push the envelope, with more strings tuned to how the **** ever you have more options for your fingers to go and more notes to be played, lets take a messugah song and transcribe it to a 6 string in standard, if its even doable and i bet you will have about 15 fret stretches, they use what they use to make there music you use what you use, and lets all try to find a happy place in the middle.

Looking at the Catch 33 tabs off of the official forum, the most strings they use is 4. They could have easily done the entire album on a 4 string guitar.

Originally Posted by Of Angels

I said no such thing - that was somebody else.



It is metal. If you don't like it, it's not metal that you like. It's not metal that I like. It IS metal though. What is it, then? "Crap"? Yes, but that's not a genre classification.




Once again, the idea, for me at least, is in the shape/size/feel of the instrument. You making mention of others who tune 6 stringers low holds no ground in response to what I said. My point is that those carpal tunnel inducing instruments have longer scales, which provide different tonal characteristics and the propensity to sound tighter with lower tunings. While Meshuggah, in my opinion, makes boring use of the low strings, and not much else, who's to say that they would have wrote their most recent albums without those 8 strings? Creativity is something that knows no boundaries, and it is indeed wrong to try to form them, regardless of whether or not you approve of whatever it is you want to criticize.

Since almost all 8 strings were custom made up until this year, the people could have easily gotten extended scale 6's.

Also, another question for you extended scale kiddies, where do you call it quits? If 6 is "hindering your range", the you would go to 7, but then you could to to an 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, etc. No matter what, with this mindset, you would just keep on going.