[Did Ibanez mess] up the S-series

[GuitarBizarre]

Its not a tremol-no. A tremol-No locks the bridge in place completely. The ZPS is more like a tremsetter or arming adjuster. It stops the bar from moving during double stops and stuff by making it a lot stiffer. Taking it out means you basically have 2 springs and a completely standard floating trem that just happens to use ball bearing not knives. Anything thats a pain in the ass with a floating tremolo is going to be a pain in the ass with a ZR once you take the bar out.

And while the ball bearings do mean a slightly better 'mechanical' return in theory, in practice you would be better off with a knife edge tremolo if you're going to take the bar out, purely because those systems are more developed and thus better.

Personally, I love the ZR tremolo and you really don't need a 'light as a feather' tremolo unless you're being incredibly anal about it. My RG550 has the Edge and its great, but I have no reservations in saying that compared to my ZR its a gigantic pain in the ass for the sake of fluttering, and a deeper range with a lighter feel. And the feel isn't realyl something I have a big deal issue with. The ZR is much smoother apart from the slight knock when you go past level on a big dive to pullup. Its not even audible, you just feel the travel of the tremolo knock into that 'dent' of force then past it.

[cioran]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Its not a tremol-no. A tremol-No locks the bridge in place completely. The ZPS is more like a tremsetter or arming adjuster. It stops the bar from moving during double stops and stuff by making it a lot stiffer. Taking it out means you basically have 2 springs and a completely standard floating trem that just happens to use ball bearing not knives. Anything thats a pain in the ass with a floating tremolo is going to be a pain in the ass with a ZR once you take the bar out.

And while the ball bearings do mean a slightly better 'mechanical' return in theory, in practice you would be better off with a knife edge tremolo if you're going to take the bar out, purely because those systems are more developed and thus better.

Personally, I love the ZR tremolo and you really don't need a 'light as a feather' tremolo unless you're being incredibly anal about it. My RG550 has the Edge and its great, but I have no reservations in saying that compared to my ZR its a gigantic pain in the ass for the sake of fluttering, and a deeper range with a lighter feel. And the feel isn't realyl something I have a big deal issue with. The ZR is much smoother apart from the slight knock when you go past level on a big dive to pullup. Its not even audible, you just feel the travel of the tremolo knock into that 'dent' of force then past it.

I think I understand you. So if I'm thinking of the advantages of a tremsetter or similar plus the benefit of adjusting spring tension with the thumbscrew when I want to tune all strings a semitone or two up or down, we're closer to what I'm looking for.
This is my main gripe with my EP trem, and if the bar can be easily removed I'd see a big plus there.

With regards to the 'dent', I did feel it when doing big moves, but it wasn't audible, as you said.
However, being thoroughly stuck in that dent when I'm trying to achieve a bar vibrato is something else, I think you'll agree. It was so bad it was quite obvious something was amiss, unless more or less yanking on the bar is acceptable.

I'm not a hopeless cork-sniffer in this regard, but I need the trem to respond immediately to very small movements, not act as if though I have to pull it free.
It doesn't have to be very smooth either, just ready and willing.

Thus, I'm thinking something was wrong with the setup, and since the guy who had done it was one of only two available in my area, I thought it better to ask here.

All the best

(Past midnight here, btw, if you'd like to help further there's no rush.)

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by cioran

I think I understand you. So if I'm thinking of the advantages of a tremsetter or similar plus the benefit of adjusting spring tension with the thumbscrew when I want to tune all strings a semitone or two up or down, we're closer to what I'm looking for.
This is my main gripe with my EP trem, and if the bar can be easily removed I'd see a big plus there.

With regards to the 'dent', I did feel it when doing big moves, but it wasn't audible, as you said.
However, being thoroughly stuck in that dent when I'm trying to achieve a bar vibrato is something else, I think you'll agree. It was so bad it was quite obvious something was amiss, unless more or less yanking on the bar is acceptable.

I'm not a hopeless cork-sniffer in this regard, but I need the trem to respond immediately to very small movements, not act as if though I have to pull it free.
It doesn't have to be very smooth either, just ready and willing.

Thus, I'm thinking something was wrong with the setup, and since the guy who had done it was one of only two available in my area, I thought it better to ask here.

All the best

(Past midnight here, btw, if you'd like to help further there's no rush.)

The arm tension adjuster doesn't work that way. Its a lot easier to move it to a semitone down or tone down, but its also going to require the same amount of retuning to make sure the bridge is level. It wont move it down in pitch.

As for the subtle movements and so on...YMMV but even with the dent in the bars travel (And bear in mind, I've experienced my ZR both with and without a loose tremolo bar holder) I've never found any hassle in applying light vibrato. Its just something you have to get used to. Try a 6 string ZR and make sure the tremolo bar holder doesnt have any/much play in it, then see how you go on with it. THe extra tension of 7 strings, and the large amount of play involved when the holder goes loose, could be a lot of the issue here.

[cioran]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

The arm tension adjuster doesn't work that way. Its a lot easier to move it to a semitone down or tone down, but its also going to require the same amount of retuning to make sure the bridge is level. It wont move it down in pitch.

As for the subtle movements and so on...YMMV but even with the dent in the bars travel (And bear in mind, I've experienced my ZR both with and without a loose tremolo bar holder) I've never found any hassle in applying light vibrato. Its just something you have to get used to. Try a 6 string ZR and make sure the tremolo bar holder doesnt have any/much play in it, then see how you go on with it. THe extra tension of 7 strings, and the large amount of play involved when the holder goes loose, could be a lot of the issue here.

Hey GB,

sorry about the sloppy wording - I didn't mean the arm tension adjuster, but the spring tension adjuster (which I referred to as a thumbscrew) on the flip side of the trem.
I realize there's never any escaping the hassle of retuning and keeping the bridge level, I just had hopes about the amount.

As it happens, I had a chance to try a 6-string ZR earlier today. It was a significant improvement, but I still felt the dent, although to a lesser degree.
If I was looking for a 6-string with a good trem, I might well have gone for it and gotten used to the feel.
It seems to me the extra tension from 7 strings you mentioned could well be the culprit, along with a less-than-perfect setup.

As you've mentioned above, there doesn't seem to be much point in buying a ZR-equipped guitar only to disable its main feature, and perhaps I do need knife edges to be perfectly happy with the action.

At the moment it looks like I'll go with an RG instead, and save myself this point of dissatisfaction, as getting used to a 7-string will take some effort anyway.

Thanks for your help and patience,

All the best

[GuitarBizarre]

No worries, it was my wording that was at fault, not yours!

[cioran]

All's well, regardless :-)

Now, an RG with the EP, or a hardtail and mount a Kahler...?
The quest continues...

All the best

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by cioran

All's well, regardless :-)

Now, an RG with the EP, or a hardtail and mount a Kahler...?
The quest continues...

All the best

Second hand 2002 or earlier RG? Seems awesome choice to me.

----------------
Now playing: Björk - Unison
via FoxyTunes

[Flobanez]

I've always liked the older S, especially the S540 and i've always been a fan of the Lo Pro Edge. I heard nothing but great things about the ZR bridge, i'd like to try it out.

[Eddie B]

I don't know that Ibanez has "F"ed up the S series, but as a rabid fan of the old S540's, I have to admit that their more recent offerings (anything in the last five years) have left me cold. I haven't had anything but various RG's in my collection for almost seven years. The wavy inlays for one, the long run of the LO-TRS trem for another, and now the lack of flame maple top models for another. The new poplar, bunbinga and ebony swirl tops are nice looking, but not to my taste. The S5470F is something like what I've been waiting for them to come out with for a long time now. I'm yet to try a ZR equipped guitar, so the jury's still out there.

My main gripe about Ibanez is that although they're constantly innovating like nobody else in the industry, they choose to let some great guitar models die. Like, for instance, the S Classic line. Those were great guitars. To discontinue them for lack of sales and then introduce the Jet King honestly has me scratching my head. I still don't understand why the S540Fm was discontinued. Makes me sad.

[cioran]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Second hand 2002 or earlier RG? Seems awesome choice to me.

----------------
Now playing: Björk - Unison
via FoxyTunes

If I go for an RG with an Edge trem, the only one I have a straight line to seems to be the 1527 (I'm not paying for a Vai signature.)
I'm in Sweden, which should be sufficient explanation...

If I look at second hand stuff there's more, of course, and I'm not knowledgeable about those fiddles, so I'd need to learn.

If I just get a hardtail and mount the Kahler (feel free to scream, 'blasphemy!' at this point), the one I see new is the 7321 - again, more room in the second hand world.

Thing is, this 7-string is not going to be my main fiddle, I'm staying with an excellent RG 6-string for most things.
I want the 7-string for all sorts of oddball stuff, which is why I'm looking for retuning ease, btw.

I'm currently reviewing my options, as the saying goes...

All the best

[GuitarBizarre]

I'd just like to say on a different note, that according to the vast majority of opinions in this thread, the new E-Gen is apparently the PERFECT S series guitar. Edge Zero? Check. Locking studs available? Check. Wizard Neck? Check. Dimarzio pups? Check.

Of course, that also brings up the point about how people are insane and never ****ing satisfied, so I'm sure someone will be along shortly to bitch about it being purple and having the kung fu grip, as if THATs the end of the world.

[560licious]

Originally Posted by NickCormier

Maybe Vai and Satch havent switched over because they been playing LoPros since the 80s, why would they change something they used for 20 years? .

and do you think they will use anything inferior? c'mon....the reason they haven't changed is like the old saying goes...if it ain't broke.....oh and lopro's didn't come out till the early 90's..they used the Edge before that, and maybe still do..

[S-man]

You guys should sign the petition....

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/89s540ltdPetition/

[GTR-MAN]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

I'd just like to say on a different note, that according to the vast majority of opinions in this thread, the new E-Gen is apparently the PERFECT S series guitar. Edge Zero? Check. Locking studs available? Check. Wizard Neck? Check. Dimarzio pups? Check.

Of course, that also brings up the point about how people are insane and never ****ing satisfied, so I'm sure someone will be along shortly to bitch about it being purple and having the kung fu grip, as if THATs the end of the world.

I agree, the E-GEN looks awesome. I love purple, so the color is perfect for me. I thought the monkey grip was stupid when I 1t saw it, now I love it. The kung fu grip doesn't bother me one bit. Yeah there will always be somebody bitching or whining "why doesn't Ibanez do this or that?" , that's why they make depends undergarments. For the big babys who haven't realized yet that the world revolves around the sun, not them. To those folks I say, "call your mommy & cry to her that Ibanez doesn't listen to some nobody about what they should do. Let her wipe your nose and ass, we don't care" I always find it funny that people can find so much to complain about when it comes to Ibanez. has anyone of these whiners ever look at the Ibanez site? I can't think of one guitar company that makes as big of a variety of axes as Ibanez does. Models come and go, so f'n what. That is life. Deal already. sheesh. That's my rant for the day.

[S-man]

Who knows if the EGEN is a good guitar or not. I'm not aware of any for sale.

Has anyone even played one of these guitars? WTF? Maybe you will be able to purchase one by WNAMM 09.

And yes...Ibanez did screw up the S guitars...when they moved all the production to KOREA. Fortunately, they came to their senses and released the 24 fret MIJ S Series guitar this year. You can actually buy that guitar. (Unlike the EGEN).

Anyone that has played the older MIJ 22 fret S series knows the MIK guitars are crap by comparison. People that defend the MIK are the ones that own them. BTW...I own both.

As far as the world revolving....

It's is the general consensus that the MIK guitars sucked, not just one persons wants or desires. If your not aware of that, you must not be that familiar with the S series.

Did you know that the radius of the trem doesn't match the MIK fretboard radius. That sounds pretty F'd up to me.

I could go on and on....

But, there is no point in that. The old guitars are still for sale, as a matter of fact I recently picked up a N.O.S. 1990 540SLR.

One last thing.....

WAHHHHHHHH!!!!!