Ibanez screws it’s S buyers over again.. - Page 10

Ke^in · #**136** 01-03-2007, 10:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Rich

I sure hope you don't believe everything you read, and then post like YOU know the facts based on it

Well Ive asked quite a few people that build guitars over the years. The problem Ibanez had wasn't the wizard design, but Ibanez wasn't always picky about what maple it used. The problem wasn't with the necks so much as Ibanez not wanting to spend as much money on the high end maple. That is why the superwizard came to be. They could use lower quality maple by sticking in a strip of another wood.

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ABSOLUTELY it makes for a more stable neck.

1mm will? Got anything to back up that? So far you are the only person that has claimed that it would. And I've asked experienced guitar makers over the last decade.

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Will it keep a neck made of bad wood from going bad? NO. Will it help keep a good neck good, YES!!

Well a good wizard neck will stay good as well. bad wood + any neck = bad neck.

But that was my point, 1mm wont make a difference if the wood is crap. So we agree.

Ibanez didn't always and still don't always use the best maple for their necks.

I've seen a ton of fat strat necks that used cheap maple that had problems all over them. I wouldn't blame the C shaped neck.

Rich · #**137** 01-03-2007, 10:15 AM

Got ANYTHING to back up your claims except a bunch of noise spouted by those that more than likely think much less of Ibanez than their favorite brand?!

ANY scarf joint design is faulty to a point because 2 different pieces of wood are shrinking on 2 different planes, primarily causing scarf-joint-itis or the tendency to backbow at the nut creating an s shaped neck. Combine that with the fact Ibanez used a lot of flatsawn junk in the old days and statements like that are to be expected. Even if the piece was 1/4 sawn doesn't mean it's going to stay straight, and of course extra mass helps, but if it's going to have a scarf problem it's going to have a scarf problem.

I beat my head on this wall yesterday, I'm not beating it anymore, it's not worth the headache.

Ke^in · #**138** 01-03-2007, 10:21 AM

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Originally Posted by Rich

Got ANYTHING to back up your claims except a bunch of noise spouted by those that more than likely think much less of Ibanez than their favorite brand?!

Well so far Rich all you've given me was be condescending and give me baseless accusations. Why should I believe you over them? Not that you are disagreeing with them. You aren't

And no these people do not think less of Ibanez. That was a projection. And it was dishonest.
But that is irrevelent because you agreed with them below. Which has me wondering what the hell you are actually arguing about now...

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ANY scarf joint design is faulty to a point because 2 different pieces of wood are shrinking on 2 different planes, primarily causing scarf-joint-itis or the tendency to backbow at the nut creating an s shaped neck. Combine that with the fact Ibanez used a lot of flatsawn junk in the old days and statements like that are to be expected.

I know why scarf joints screw up. And I knew Ibanez used cheap junk maple. We aren't in disagreement here. This is basically what the people I spoke with said. The main factor being that Ibanez used JUNK Maple. And still does.

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Even if the piece was 1/4 sawn doesn't mean it's going to stay straight, and of course extra mass helps, but if it's going to have a scarf problem it's going to have a scarf problem.

I beat my head on this wall yesterday, I'm not beating it anymore, it's not worth the headache.

You aren't disagreeing with me. It's not the thickness that screws the wizard, but the crap wood. As this effects ANY neck of ANY size. If a bad wizard I was made 1mm thicker it wouldn't suddenly turn into a good neck.

If you were beating your head into the wall it was of your own accord. Nothing I did or didn't do.

Rich · #**139** 01-03-2007, 10:27 AM

I didn't agree with them. According to them [you] there's nothing wrong with a 1 piece scarfed design.

Only somebody really dumb could think extra mass would not help keep good wood stable.

toshiro · #**140** 01-03-2007, 10:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Rich

Only somebody really dumb could think extra mass would not help keep good wood stable.

I'm not saying it's going to be better or worse, I'm saying there are other factors that have more of an effect on warping outside the mass of the neck. Especially when the increase in mass is so slight(There are some Wizard 1s out there that are probably close to 18mm at the nut). Otherwise those giant boat-neck fenders would almost never warp, and that's a crock.

That's it. You can now return to the bickering. I'd rather go play.

Ke^in · #**141** 01-03-2007, 10:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Rich

I didn't agree with them. According to them [you] there's nothing wrong with a 1 piece scarfed design.

No, that isn't what I said at all, actually I said the opposite. You are being dishonest again. If your rant was so just you wouldn't have to revert to such shinanigans.

I said with the wizards it was the wood that was giving them most of the problems. The JUNK wood you admitted to them using.

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Only somebody really dumb could think extra mass would not help keep good wood stable.

Ah pretentious condescending banter. Got to love it.

I said 1mm wont make a crappy maple neck any better than it was before. And it wont.

Ke^in · #**142** 01-03-2007, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by toshiro

I'm not saying it's going to be better or worse, I'm saying there are other factors that have more of an effect on warping outside the mass of the neck.

Like crap wood that Ibanez often uses.

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Otherwise those giant boat-neck fenders would almost never warp, and that's a crock.

Indeed. And they do. Crap wood + any neck = bad neck

No matter how thick or thin it is. Ibanez wouldn't have had a lot of it's wizard problems had they not been penny pinchers and used junk wood.

Rich · #**143** 01-03-2007, 10:45 AM

I'm done bickering, I already have a headache and it's not even 10AM!

Of course there are a lot of factors. But if it's good wood, the extra mass will help to keep the neck in good profile. Some people actually put 12's and 13's on these things, although I never recomend anything over 10's on a W1.

Rich · #**144** 01-03-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ke^in

The problem Ibanez had wasn't the wizard design, .

Don't ever call me dishonest. Try putting your own ducks in a row if you're going to argue about them

Ke^in · #**145** 01-03-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Of course there are a lot of factors. But if it's good wood, the extra mass will help to keep the neck in good profile.

I agree EXTRA MASS (More than 1mm needed to actually make a difference) will help keep the neck in shape if it's good wood to begin with. But If it's good wood to begin with extra mass wouldn't be needed.

Adding 2mm to a neck might make SOME of the warping and twisting problems go away with crappy wood necks. It wont make them all go away.

S-man · #**146** 01-03-2007, 10:49 AM

Regardless of all this 1mm thickness differance, wood types and warpage talk.

The botton line is the S has went down hill (my opinion) in one way or another since production was switch to Korea. Meaning any S with a C in front of the serial number.

Is it the depth of the neck pocket, the funky shape of the Wizard
II on the Korean S, or the build quality? Probably all of that.

Even if you like the current configuration, it's hard to argue that the guitars don't feel alot differant when comparing the old to the new. They definately aren't as sleek as they used to be. I think even Rich can agree with that.

But who knows, I'm probably wrong.

Seems to me that the thinnest guitar Ibanez makes should be availble with the thinnest neck.

But that would be crazy. I got some UFO's to track down..cya.

Ke^in · #**147** 01-03-2007, 10:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Rich

Don't ever call me dishonest.

Then stop posting dishonest things like

"except a bunch of noise spouted by those that more than likely think much less of Ibanez than their favorite brand?!"

"According to them [you] there's nothing wrong with a 1 piece scarfed design. "

You just made these up out of the blue to help support your arguement. Esp when I said the opposite in the latter comment.

Making things up to support your arguement IS dishonest.

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Try putting your own ducks in a row if you're going to argue about them

Oh I have been.

Rich · #**148** 01-03-2007, 11:01 AM

I quoted you, but *I* made it up?! YOU stated the problem wasn't in the design and part of the problem IS THE DESIGN!!

The rest of it sounds like nothing more than the crap Ibanez users have been putting up with from the rest of the world for a long time, spouted noise.

Your ducks are in a very crooked line. But I'll let you go back to your whine fest now.

Ke^in · #**149** 01-03-2007, 11:05 AM

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I quoted you, but *I* made it up?!

Quote me saying what you claim I did. You can't. It was dishonest.

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YOU stated the problem wasn't in the design and part of the problem IS THE DESIGN!!

YES! The problem THEY (Ibanez) had was with the JUNK WOOD. I never said that there wasn't problems with that way of putting wood together. I said that wasn't IBANEZ problem with the wizard neck.

BIG difference between the two. You took that and claimed I made a statement that there was no problems with the scarf neck design. I never said that. It would be stupid to say that as there is problems with ALL types of neck designs. All have it's benefits and down sides.

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The rest of it sounds like nothing more than the crap Ibanez users have been putting up with from the rest of the world for a long time, spouted noise.

What rest of it? You mean what I have been told by experienced builders? Not crap at all. They claimed Ibanes used junk wood. You've made that claim as well. Nothing I have said is untrue.

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Your ducks are in a very crooked line. But I'll let you go back to your whine fest now.
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Ah the ad-hominem attacks, baseless accusations and now out comes the projection of "whining"

niceeeee. I fully expect a "your mom" joke in your next reply.

Rich · #**150** 01-03-2007, 11:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Ke^in

Quote me saying what you claim I did. You can't. It was dishonest.

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Originally Posted by Ke^in

The problem Ibanez had wasn't the wizard design,.

I already did quote you but evidently I have to do it again!

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Originally Posted by Ke^in

You took that and claimed I made a statement that there was no problems with the scarf neck design. I never said that. ,.

You did say that. I just quoted you, AGAIN.

For anything else you keep reediting half of what you say by the time I reply. Talk about the ultimate WASTE of time anyway.... How about figuring out what you're going to say and say it the FIRST time.

Your momma!