Gassing for Les Paul (advice needed)

shogun · #1 09-11-2007, 04:28 PM

I am considering parting with my Rg1570 (with up graded pickups)

It has an amazing neck for shredding, but i have been past the all tech-no feel phase for years now.. The thing i have always admired about a lespaul is the thick thick neck pickup sound for cleans.. I play in a prog rock band, and a jam band that does covers, jazz, fusion, rock, metal.. etc..

what i am considering is selling my ibanez, finding an EPIPHONE les paul (unless i can find one used, i see no point in buying a gibson over epiphone-- neither have locking machine heads, so they wont stay in tune for me, and they both have ****ty pickups IMO..)

i am looking at the bone yard or a les paul custom.. i plan to put duncans in it, and schaller locking machine heads.. possibly a bone nut as well..

what are your suggestions for pickups (have to be duncans..)

i want high output, my other 2 guitars are an MMJP (older model) and an axis supersport.. they both have hot pickups and i want pickups that do not have to be real close to the strings-- i have ran into strat-itus before- and i find the hot pickups work against it.. even know they pull more, i find taking lower output pickups n setting them very high always leads to dissonance on the low strings..

i currently have a full shred in the bridge of my rg, and a jazz in the neck.. wouldnt say they are my fav sounding pickups at all..

i had a strat with 59's and liked them.. --- do not want paf or standard les paulish pickups btw..

this can be bumped to the pickup section if needed..

rastachild · #2 09-11-2007, 05:23 PM

how many les pauls have you played? not to be asinine, but just wondering. there are a lot of opinions regarding epiphone vs gibson regarding quality (vs each other and in general), but it sounds like you may be going off of what you've heard instead of your own personal experience.

i own a 92 gibson les paul studio. the stock pickups in that guitar seem to have at least as much output as the axis supersport (which i also own) or the duncan 59 (which is modeled after a paf btw!) and have plenty of bite. i've played a lot of gibson customs and classics which have sounded pretty wonderful too and not just in a classic rock sense. of course tone is in the ear of the beholder, so the best advice is to first try out several lp's (gibson and epiphone) and then decide if you need to make a change in pickups.

and a properly set up fixed bridge guitar shouldn't need locking tuners to stay in tune. my studio never had tuning issues. you may prefer aftermarket tuners for the gear ratios, but a locking nut is overkill imo.

lastly, you should really make sure you like the neck on the les paul before pulling the trigger. the fretboard radius and neck shape (and mass) is quite a bit different than the guitars you've mentioned and it could be a surprise (possibly unpleasant) if you're not acclimated to it. i guess bottomline is you really need to get out there and try out these guitars before making assumptions.

**jim777** · #3 09-11-2007, 05:42 PM

Gibson makes GREAT humbuckers, far better than the ones that come in Epiphones. I would look at a Heritage H-150 (or an H-157 if you can find one)if i was shopping for an LP though.

shogun · #4 09-11-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rastachild

how many les pauls have you played? not to be asinine, but just wondering. there are a lot of opinions regarding epiphone vs gibson regarding quality (vs each other and in general), but it sounds like you may be going off of what you've heard instead of your own personal experience.

i own a 92 gibson les paul studio. the stock pickups in that guitar seem to have at least as much output as the axis supersport (which i also own) or the duncan 59 (which is modeled after a paf btw!) and have plenty of bite. i've played a lot of gibson customs and classics which have sounded pretty wonderful too and not just in a classic rock sense. of course tone is in the ear of the beholder, so the best advice is to first try out several lp's (gibson and epiphone) and then decide if you need to make a change in pickups.

and a properly set up fixed bridge guitar shouldn't need locking tuners to stay in tune. my studio never had tuning issues. you may prefer aftermarket tuners for the gear ratios, but a locking nut is overkill imo.

lastly, you should really make sure you like the neck on the les paul before pulling the trigger. the fretboard radius and neck shape (and mass) is quite a bit different than the guitars you've mentioned and it could be a surprise (possibly unpleasant) if you're not acclimated to it. i guess bottomline is you really need to get out there and try out these guitars before making assumptions.

haha.. i've tried the guitars that I have listed. I will not keep the pickups in the guitar I purchase.. I will sand the finish off the neck if it bugs me too much.. i played a few les pauls yesterday. The main thing about the pickups i want is sound, output comes second.. i do not like the sound of the pickups in most les pauls, i also find them to be very noisy..

as for the machine head comment-- i am 100% confident that ANY guitar without a double locking system, locking machine heads, or vintage machine heads will NOT stay in tune with ME playing it.. i do a lot of big bends and wide vibrato at times.. It is either your playing, or your ear that is telling you otherwise.. i will argue with anyone who disagree's with me.. if i am doing lead, i could not play for 20 sec without it going far off pitch..

ive heard so many people say "well my guitar doesnt have them and it stays in tune fine," but trust me, if you are saying that to yourself or to me, it is because you either do not have the ear to hear when it is slightly or vastly out of tune, OR you do not have a playing style which requires big bends and wide vibrato..

dont take this as a lippy response, just saying what i know from experience.

shogun · #5 09-11-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim777

Gibson makes GREAT humbuckers, far better than the ones that come in Epiphones. I would look at a Heritage H-150 (or an H-157 if you can find one)if i was shopping for an LP though.

i think its more the sound from the wood that is making me want a LP, not the standard electronics for one, i am going to go for some seymour duncans, just need to figure out what i want..

Dino · #6 09-11-2007, 07:02 PM

You will hate it.

shogun · #7 09-11-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino

You will hate it.

why's that?

waylay00 · #8 09-11-2007, 07:37 PM

Take this advice as a grain of salt, but I wouldn't be so narrow minded before purchasing. A properly set up Les Paul will not go out of tune, unless there are some other major issues that need to be dealt with.

The difference between Epiphones and Gibsons is far more than the different pickups. You're dealing with other factors like fretwork, wood quality, etc...

About the pickups... Gibson does make very good humbuckers. Your mind is probably subconsciously telling you that you NEED to change pickups, when in fact you probably don't. A lot of people seem to be like that for some reason. Not every stock guitar needs a pickup change. Just something to remind yourself. Then again, it really could be that you don't like the pickups, and that's fine.

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all pickups sound the same, even if they are the same model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino

You will hate it.

Ignorant advice...

David McCarroll · #9 09-11-2007, 09:08 PM

Well, I might as well chime in - Dino may well be right - you cannot get much more polar apart in solidbodies than an RG1570 and a Les Paul, and they have a radically different feel in every way, from scale length to the lack of cutaways on the Les Paul making it sit completely differently on you to the RG, so, play one for ages before you buy, just to make sure that it is for you.

Here would be a few simple suggestions:

1) Don't buy an Epiphone, they are solid poo, and you will come to fully realise this when you decide to upgrade to a Gibson and discover that the resale value of the Epi is zero due to market flooding and very poor reputation
2) Gibsons have a bone nut, or a micarta nut in some cases - if you can tell the difference in tone between bone and Micarta you have Eric Johnson's ears.
3) There is absolutely nothing wrong with Gibson tuners - you are wasting your money completely on locking tuners - they will help keep a non-locking trem in tune, they will make zero difference to your Les Paul.
4) Gibson use two different kinds of humbuckers (basically, there are more, but you can divide them into two categories) - the '57s/Burstbuckers, and the 490/498 high output jobbies on guitars like the Studio and the Classic. The latter have tons of output, and are great sounding pickups. The former have lowish output, but tons of tone - the Burstbucker is a great sounding pickup - it has an openness and airiness to the tone which, in a really nice Les Paul is an absolute wonder to behold.
5) If you have problems keeping a double locking trem guitar in tune, you are heading for an absolute world of pain with a Les Paul - sorry, just simply the case - they have a floating tailpiece, a floating bridge (with floating bridgepieces in it for goodness sake!), an odd break angle over the bridge if you want tone and sustain, and as the string passes over the nut it changes direction in a compound angle! Every single one of these points is a situation which can lead to string sticking, and if you do big bends and huge vibrato, the string moves across each of these surfaces, pinching and snagging as they go.

I'm not a Gibson fan, I have owned Custom Shop Les Pauls, a '64 SG, a Les Paul Deluxe, a mid seventies SG and still have an Explorer (somewhere), really good ones sound fantastic, and I love that sound, but particularly the CS Les Paul's (a 57 Goldtop RI) inability to be intonated, stay in tune for as long as a whole song, contributions to my physiotherapist's retirement fund due to the effects it's weight and complete lack of contouring had on my nerves and musculature, along with Gibson's total inability to actually crown and level frets before they leave the factory (since solved I believe by Gibson purchasing FIVE Plek machines!) - this was a $7000AUD guitar bear in mind, led me to sell the clunker to a friend who adores LPs, and I swapped it for a stoptail PRS Custom 22 - which has none of the above issues, and is simply a better built instrument to start off with.

So, sure, look at Les Pauls, but have a look at the PRS Singlecut as well - it has a one piece Stoptail (no string angle problems, no rattly bits), a straight string angle over the nut, and locking tuners (unnecessary, but I think they are the only ones PRS use), a nicer neck heel, a nicer neck shape and great pickups. Singlecuts seem to go for anywhere from about $1650 - $1900 secondhand (I think Wildwood has one for about $1650 at the moment), and at that price, they frankly eat Gibson Les Pauls - why do you think Gibson took them to court!!!!

If you still want a Les Paul, look at the Studios before you plomp anything down on an Epi, sorry all you Epi owners out there, but they are junk.

rastachild · #10 09-11-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogun

ive heard so many people say "well my guitar doesnt have them and it stays in tune fine," but trust me, if you are saying that to yourself or to me, it is because you either do not have the ear to hear when it is slightly or vastly out of tune, OR you do not have a playing style which requires big bends and wide vibrato..

lol. if you say so

i definitely agree with david carroll about the prs singlecut though. superior in every way to the les paul and competitively priced too. i still say you probably need more time with these guitars before you plunk down your cash. shaving the neck after spending $1500+ doesn't sound like the smartest idea...

David McCarroll · #11 09-11-2007, 10:41 PM

Shaving the neck on a Les Paul!!!!!???????

Crikeys - they're barely stable to start off with before REMOVING wood!

Shaving the neck on ANY guitar is a fairly proven way of reducing its value to $00.00. That's before discussing tuning stability!

If you want a "slim neck" Les Paul, have a look at the Les Paul Classic - it has exactly that (and high output pickups too), but bear in mind that the best sounding LPs by several country miles are old Standards with great big baseball bat necks - plenty of good, well seasoned STIFF Mahogany

**elcid** · #12 09-11-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogun

what i am considering is selling my ibanez, finding an EPIPHONE les paul (unless i can find one used, i see no point in buying a gibson over epiphone-- neither have locking machine heads, so they wont stay in tune for me, and they both have ****ty pickups IMO..)

what are your suggestions for pickups (have to be duncans..)

I like JB and Jazz or 59, I have had them in atleast one of my Gibsons at all times

David and Rasta, When I see something like "i see no point in buying a gibson over epiphone", I've learned after years of banging my head against a wall, it's best to just let the thread go.

David McCarroll · #13 09-11-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcid

I like JB and Jazz or 59, I have had them in atleast one of my Gibsons at all times

David and Rasta, When I see something like "i see no point in buying a gibson over epiphone", I've learned after years of banging my head against a wall, it's best to just let the thread go.

If the dude wants to shave the neck on it, probably better to ruin something worthless in the first place.......

How do you find the Jazz and the JB in relation to the 59 Cid? I want a juicier back pickup to replace the Pearly Gates in m' Custom 22 (yo, y'know what I'm sayin'? - oops, wrong thread)?

**elcid** · #14 09-11-2007, 10:55 PM

Pearly Gates is also a great pickup, the Custom Custom and Seth Lover are sweet too. As far as regular, non botique aftermarket pickups go Im a big fan of Duncans. The JB is a given, I have one in my LP Custom, had one in my Standard, Explorer and DC before I sold them.

I find Seymour Duncans description for the comparison between the Jazz and 59 pretty acurate "Compared to the SH-1 '59 Model, the Jazz has slightly less output and a more detailed treble response."

After a few years with both, I like the Jazz better, especially for leads.

Since I never miss an opportunity to pimp the girls

David McCarroll · #15 09-11-2007, 11:01 PM

If I didn't find them impossible to play Cid, Goldtops would rule my world! I think we get all the Friday Afternoon Specials here in Australia, some really seriously awful Gibbos. Come to think of it some seriously stinky MIM Fenders too. The Pearly Gates is too trebly in the PRS, I'm tempted to try a Gibson Burstbucker if there is a slightly overwound version, the Duncan 59 in the neck position is glorious.