PRS Custom 24 vs RGA121

[waylay00]

Different or not, I'd take a PRS over an RGA121 ANY day of the week.

[David McCarroll]

Being the owner of two PRS Custom 22s and several JEMs, I'd say take the PRS ANY day!!!!! Custom 22s can either be trem or non trem - the stop tail that PRS use is superb, Blue Matteo is their best colour, and as for pickups, any standard sized humbucking pickup will fit in a PRS. Both of mine have what's called a "Wide Fat" neck profile (which unfortunately is starting to become a fairly good description of me too), and they feel fantastic, better than the "Wide Thin" and miles better than any Gibson I have ever played or owned. As for PRSs being overpriced, I dunno, in all honesty the wood seems miles better than Ibanez guitars - a PRS Custom is topped with half an inch of flamed or quilted Maple, and yep, they have a one piece Mahogany back and a one piece Mahogany neck - whether this is sonically better than say a two or three piece back is debatable, however there are plenty of guitar makers who will swear on their grandmother's grave that every glue join in a guitar robs the instrument of rigidity and sustain - a new PRS here in Australia is about $5200RRP, a Gibson Les Paul Standard is $4299RRP - for the extra $900 or so, you would honestly have to have very large rocks in your head to buy a Les Paul over a PRS!!!!

Cheers

David McCarroll

[Eddie88]

Originally Posted by David McCarroll

Being the owner of two PRS Custom 22s and several JEMs, I'd say take the PRS ANY day!!!!! Custom 22s can either be trem or non trem - the stop tail that PRS use is superb, Blue Matteo is their best colour, and as for pickups, any standard sized humbucking pickup will fit in a PRS. Both of mine have what's called a "Wide Fat" neck profile (which unfortunately is starting to become a fairly good description of me too), and they feel fantastic, better than the "Wide Thin" and miles better than any Gibson I have ever played or owned. As for PRSs being overpriced, I dunno, in all honesty the wood seems miles better than Ibanez guitars - a PRS Custom is topped with half an inch of flamed or quilted Maple, and yep, they have a one piece Mahogany back and a one piece Mahogany neck - whether this is sonically better than say a two or three piece back is debatable, however there are plenty of guitar makers who will swear on their grandmother's grave that every glue join in a guitar robs the instrument of rigidity and sustain - a new PRS here in Australia is about $5200RRP, a Gibson Les Paul Standard is $4299RRP - for the extra $900 or so, you would honestly have to have very large rocks in your head to buy a Les Paul over a PRS!!!!

Cheers

David McCarroll

Thansk for the great info! Good answer, but you say the necks are fantastic - in what way? Your fantastic isnt necessarily mine I do not want a fat Gibson neck. I want something around my Ibanez, but it doesnt have to be _that_ thin!

[ChrisReedSmith]

Originally Posted by Planeflux

Neck buzz? Never heard of such a thing. My RGA's neck doesn't 'buzz', and I haven't heard of any RGA owner experiencing such buzz.

Obviously any guitar without a correct setup can and will buzz. Even PRS are no exception to that. Thats wonderful that your guitar plays great, it's not a design flaw that RGA's necks will ALWAYS BUZZ, NO MATTER WHAT, its just from I see Ibanez necks tend to become mal-adjusted much easier. For what reason I don't know.

Originally Posted by Planeflux

You mention 'weaker' woods, what do you mean by that? According to the specs found on Japanese Ibanez site, all (or most) Prestige Wizard are made of maple (which is pretty much an industry standard) with walnut 'stripes'. They're thin, yes, for maximum comfort and playability. Perhaps you are referring to wood quality? Never heard about any issues there either.

There are many different grades of wood of all kinds. Maple, Mahogany, what have you. Obviously wood which has not been cured as long or isn't as dry will be cheaper when bought by a guitar company. Ever compare the neck wood of say, an RG120 versus a JEM7VWH. Both are maple. But they are very different. The cheap low end RG's necks will have knots and other deformities which are not used for the higher end models.

Originally Posted by Planeflux

That's an interesting theory. What about Gibson Les Pauls, are their maple tops also a measure to cut costs?

Yea...Well since Maple naturally doesn't grow on top of Mahogany in the wild, guess there's gotta be some way they can construct a body out of the 2 different woods. Thats very different from using 2 or 3 slabs of the same wood to make a body shape. Sometimes using different slices which were not grown anywhere near each other and sometimes look very different. It costs much more to cut bodies from 1 piece of wood then to laminate and take from already cut pieces to make a horn, or lower half of a body. That is a cost cutting measure, simply put.
Think of neck-thru construction. People who perfer that type of guitar like how the neck and middle of the body are 1 piece, because it will translate into better resonance. If you take 30 seperate pieces of maple and shape and glue them together into a guitar, it will not resonate together because of all the glue you needed to use to piece it together!! Its simple physics.

[rastachild]

sorry, but that's an old wive's tale. the myth that one piece bodies sound better than 2 piece bodies has been going around for ages, but any good luthier will tell you that it's rubbish. if you're having issues with resonance, it's probably more related to the construction (i.e., tight neck joint) and quality of woods. there's nothing wrong with the ibanez 5 piece neck. i have an rga and it's resonant as hell. no neck buzz either. i suggest you try a properly set up rga, you'll change you're opinion...unless you're too jaded.

the difference in price between the two models is mainly due to the higher quality maple veneer and the prs name imo. they are both high quality guitars, but designed to produce drastically different tones.

[Planeflux]

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Obviously any guitar without a correct setup can and will buzz. Even PRS are no exception to that. Thats wonderful that your guitar plays great, it's not a design flaw that RGA's necks will ALWAYS BUZZ, NO MATTER WHAT, its just from I see Ibanez necks tend to become mal-adjusted much easier. For what reason I don't know.

Oh, you are referring to fret buzz. At first I thought you meant something actually rattling inside the neck. As I pointed out above, most, if not all, Prestige necks should pretty much be the same, so it's not really related to the RGA model. There is no noticable buzz on my guitar, and the action is set to slightly above 1mm. I assume you mean unwanted change in neck bow by 'mal-adjusted'. I am sure that thin necks are more prone to this, but I can't say I've had that happen, really, although I'd need to measure the neck relief to back that up scientifically. The Wizard necks are likely sensitive to high tension. J-Customs don't even come with a truss cover, so Ibanez must've had regular adjustments necessary in mind.

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

There are many different grades of wood of all kinds. Maple, Mahogany, what have you. Obviously wood which has not been cured as long or isn't as dry will be cheaper when bought by a guitar company. Ever compare the neck wood of say, an RG120 versus a JEM7VWH. Both are maple. But they are very different. The cheap low end RG's necks will have knots and other deformities which are not used for the higher end models.

Point taken.

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Yea...Well since Maple naturally doesn't grow on top of Mahogany in the wild, guess there's gotta be some way they can construct a body out of the 2 different woods. Thats very different from using 2 or 3 slabs of the same wood to make a body shape. Sometimes using different slices which were not grown anywhere near each other and sometimes look very different. It costs much more to cut bodies from 1 piece of wood then to laminate and take from already cut pieces to make a horn, or lower half of a body. That is a cost cutting measure, simply put.
Think of neck-thru construction. People who perfer that type of guitar like how the neck and middle of the body are 1 piece, because it will translate into better resonance. If you take 30 seperate pieces of maple and shape and glue them together into a guitar, it will not resonate together because of all the glue you needed to use to piece it together!! Its simple physics.

Yes, that's perfectly clear. No need to shout. Your first example is very different than e.g. the Les Paul/RGA wood combo, which I think sounds better than a guitar with a single mahogany block as body. Like the neck-thru construction, it's supposed to be a tone-enhancing thing.

[David McCarroll]

Originally Posted by Eddie88

Thansk for the great info! Good answer, but you say the necks are fantastic - in what way? Your fantastic isnt necessarily mine I do not want a fat Gibson neck. I want something around my Ibanez, but it doesnt have to be _that_ thin!

Then a Wide Thin is what you are after - I DO suggest you try both if you have the opportunity - I have, as I said, A PRS Custom 22 with the W/F profile, and a JEM VDY (Vine Desert Yellow), which is one of the few JEMs which came with a Wizard Neck - I swap pretty much constantly between the two, and find the PRS as comfortable, if not more so, than the Wizard - they seem to have a slight "Vee" to the profile which fits very comfortably into the Vee between your thumb and first finger - Wide Thins are actually quite rare, and while we tend to get quite a few PRS's here, I don't think I have ever picked up more than maybe one or two with the thin necks. Gibson necks seem to feel very fat because they are round, as opposed to this slight vee shape I suspect.

[ChrisReedSmith]

Originally Posted by Planeflux

No need to shout.

Eh. They put the !! symbols there for a reason, I use them to drive a point home.

Originally Posted by Planeflux

Your first example is very different than e.g. the Les Paul/RGA wood combo, which I think sounds better than a guitar with a single mahogany block as body.

Besides your valid opinion, I can't make sense of this sentence. First example? Real Les Pauls have 1 piece bodies.....

[David McCarroll]

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Besides your valid opinion, I can't make sense of this sentence. First example? Real Les Pauls have 1 piece bodies.....

Well, no, they don't - the only Les Paul models which MAY have a one piece body are Juniors and Specials, which had a slab Mahogany body, and even then i'd imagine that most of them had a centre seam in the body. Virtually every Les Paul in the "standard" Les Paul shape has a Mahogany back with a half inch or so carved Maple cap, or in the case of the original Customs and recent reissues a separate carved Mahogany cap. There are other exceptions, such as the Smartwood Les Pauls and a few other oddities (some solid Maple Les Pauls from the Seventies, Les Paul Custom Lites which may not even have been wood at all.....), and of course the first two years of SGs (1961/62) were actually "Les Pauls", but identical to a modern SG 61, but generally speaking Les Pauls today have a solid one or two piece Mahogany back with a bookmatched two piece Maple cap - so there you go - that's actually a three to four piece body.

For that matter I have seen Les Paul Customs from the seventies which had three piece Maple caps, Mahogany backs which were a two piece sandwich of Mahogany with a very thin veneer of I think Walnut in between, and enough bits of Mahogany that they look as if they were fashioned out of a blockboard door - not exactly Gibson's best period!

Cheers

David

[gu1tar]

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Obviously wood which has not been cured as long or isn't as dry will be cheaper when bought by a guitar company. Ever compare the neck wood of say, an RG120 versus a JEM7VWH. Both are maple. But they are very different. The cheap low end RG's necks will have knots and other deformities which are not used for the higher end models.

Whether the wood is cured as long doesn't change the price that much, and some companies actually cure the wood themselves; it's the grade of the wood that makes it more expensive.

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

It costs much more to cut bodies from 1 piece of wood then to laminate and take from already cut pieces to make a horn, or lower half of a body. That is a cost cutting measure, simply put.

You lost me here...whether the bodies are one-piece or 20 pieces, the body in either case is cut by the same CNC router with the same program, so the cost to cut doesn't change. In fact, it would take more time/labor to glue the multiple pieces together. What is more costly is to find/buy/use a larger slab of wood in acceptable condition for a one-piece body.

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Think of neck-thru construction. People who perfer that type of guitar like how the neck and middle of the body are 1 piece, because it will translate into better resonance. If you take 30 seperate pieces of maple and shape and glue them together into a guitar, it will not resonate together because of all the glue you needed to use to piece it together!! Its simple physics.

"Simple physics"? If it were the glue that kept it from resonating, no guitars would resonate properly because they are all glued together. The PRS neck is glued in to the body, the fingerboard is glued in, the frets are glued in; how could it resonate together with all that glue? What may hamper the resonance is if there are multiple pieces of wood used that are of different quality/densities. Fingerboard wood and density is different than neck/body woods often and doesn't negatively impact sound/resonance.

You mention the neck-thru construction and those guitars have two "wings" glued on to the neck, so they are 3 piece bodies essentially. Does their resonance suffer from the glue? One thing to ponder is that the wings, or bodies as we know their shape, may not even be necessary for good tone or resonance. The body shape is so you can hold and play the guitar comfortably. It would be an interesting experiment in sound to do a real test with 3 options (let's assume mahogany):

Guitar 1: omit the wings on a neck-thru
Guitar 2: include the wings on on a neck-thru
Guitar 3: have some large slab of mahagony (if possible?) so the neck and whole body could be cut from one piece.

(of course there could be tons of variances in woods if we wanted to go crazy)

Perhaps then all this debate of real vs. claimed sonic qualities could be put to rest. Until then, we'll all have to pick our favorites and swear allegiance to one side or the other.

And for the record, I don't believe either Ibanez or PRS really spend much time choosing truly perfect tone woods for a couple of reasons:

1) choosing tone woods is a skill VERY few people have and it's not learned overnight.
2) they are in business to make money, not set a world record for the best sounding instrument.

I will give my vote to PRS in the looks department though and for not forgetting that people are different and like color options as well. But I wish they would go back to the smaller heel that they used to use.

[Planeflux]

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Besides your valid opinion, I can't make sense of this sentence. First example? Real Les Pauls have 1 piece bodies.....

I was referring to this:

Originally Posted by ChrisReedSmith

Yea...Well since Maple naturally doesn't grow on top of Mahogany in the wild, guess there's gotta be some way they can construct a body out of the 2 different woods. Thats very different from using 2 or 3 slabs of the same wood to make a body shape. Sometimes using different slices which were not grown anywhere near each other and sometimes look very different. It costs much more to cut bodies from 1 piece of wood then to laminate and take from already cut pieces to make a horn, or lower half of a body. That is a cost cutting measure, simply put.

[dannymills]

Originally Posted by C.Thep

I don't think it is nessacary to buy a guitar from Rich if it doesn't have a floating trem. It would be alot cheaper.

I'd agree. He's renowned on here for his setup of Ibanez, which is rather difficult to perfect due to the floyds, but a good setup is not too difficult to get anywhere at a reasonable price. There's an RGA121VLF in London for about £450; I don't see why anyone should have to pay $1200 to get their hands on one...
The RGA's a fantastic player, and I love the tail, but for a mere $500 more get the PRS every time. However, if you can source an RGA for say, $700, the choice becomes more obvious; there is not such a disparity in the 'bang-for-the-buck' ratio. $700 is more a 'back-up' price; $2000 is 'I've worked my butt off to afford this baby' kinda price ! If it's $1500 RGA vs. $2000 PRS, then PRS every time. If, however, it's $800 RGA vs $2000 PRS then easily the RGA. There's my opinion anyway!

Dan

[juka]

After playing all kind of Ibanezs for over a decade, I developed a faible for PRS in recent times myself.

But if you still want a RGA121, why not buy one used...

(I have a like new one for sale, email if you are interested)

...and save some money for later, when you want a PRS as a main guitar and not just as a backup.

[gemini8026]

The RGA is a GREAT mid class instrument. I just sold mine for 600$ because my hand was cramping from the overly thin neck. Down the road im going to pick up another one and get someone to make a custom neck for me! I just dont have the time right now to wait around without a main axe!

I wont touch a PRS, strictly because I dont like a 25" scale. Ive played 25.5 all along and it is what I am used to. Ive played quite a few PRS, and they are great guitars, but I would purchase a Carvin over a PRS ANY day strictly to their AMAZING bang for buck features and quality. Consider Carvin if you like the 25" scale!