Strat bridge pivot point?

ChopTart · #1 07-26-2006, 01:03 PM

Hey, I was looking at some strats in my local shop yesterday, maybe some of you fender-heads could give me some info here - What's the deal with the synchronized trems (the ones held in with screws)? I don't understand how it would pivot like a FR or a Wilkonson if it isn't sitting on posts.

Instead, it looks like its held down with 6 screws, but if that's true, wouldn't using the trem slowly rip those screws out? This has been bugging me for a while - any info would be appreciated

Demiurge · #2 07-26-2006, 01:22 PM

The baseplate of the trem underneath the screws does not sit flush to the body. Instead, it's angled so that if the tension of the strings is greater than that of the springs, the bridge will "float." It really doesn't pull the screws out, which if you think of it, really aren't mean to fasten the bridge to the body anyway.

Rotti · #3 07-26-2006, 01:32 PM

Here's a diagram.

It actually works very well. Most people only tighten the outside two and leave the rest loose. I have mine floating so that I can pull up three frets worth and I can actually use it and it stays in tune very well. Not like a floyd, I can't push the bar until the strings are slack and expect it to come back in tune but for Jeff Beck type stuff it's fine.

rrhea · #4 07-26-2006, 01:58 PM

I have my Yngwie trem setup like Rotti, with the two outer screws at the recommended height, and the four inner screws raised up. This creates a very similar mechanism to the modern Fender and/or Floyd two point type. There is still contact with the four inner screws, but only for added strength. The pivoting actually only occurs on the two outer screws, and that's really only if you dive down really far.

It's an odd thing to try and visualize, but once you get one and mess with it, it becomes clear. My trem on the Yngwie is very stable, and I can dive down all the way and stay in tune. Pretty cool, but it took some tweaking to get it to that point. You will not get the same amount of slack out of these trems as a modern two point Fender or a Floyd. They simply don't have the range, but it will dive pretty far.

BTW, the screws are very strong. Often times SRV would only use the two outer screws in one of his guitars (with the other four inners ones removed), and he beat the crap out of the trem with 13 gauge strings on it! You would more easily break the trem arm off than rip out the bridge, believe it or not.

Ryan

ChopTart · #5 07-26-2006, 03:33 PM

Thanks for the responses you guys, nice diagram rotti

so really since the edge of the trem closest to the headstock is angled, it can drop and raise without pulling the screws out, right? That trick with the 4 center-most screws sound interesting, probably makes it feel more fluid - like a wilkinson maybe?

**Ayrton** · #6 07-26-2006, 04:02 PM

If you have a strat, I can't recommend a Callaham bridge enough.

http://www.callahamguitars.com/

sniperfrommars1 · #7 07-26-2006, 04:08 PM

Well i dont like the old strat trems anymore they were good for what they were back in the day, but stay away from the friction beast. As you can assume they arent exactly *exact* and although they can be made to stay in tune rather well, they arent quite perfect so if your used to a floyd they will pale in comparison.

rrhea · #8 07-26-2006, 05:28 PM

I agree with sniper. You won't get a Floyd performance out of any non-locking trem and that includes any and everything (Parker Flys, EBMM JPs, Fenders, Wilkies, etc.). If you doubt that, then just let me play your guitar for about 1 minute and I promise you it'll be out of tune.

I have/had all them.

On the flip side I can beat the bejezuz out of any of my Edge Pro and Floyd guits without any worries. They just work, period.

Now, with that in mind, I actually like the Fender trems on Strats because I can accept them for what they are, and use them accordingly. When setup properly and with the right playing "tricks" you can appear to never go out of tune for a good while, which is cool.

And when mine do go out of tune, it's usually not very much... pretty much unnoticeable in the mix.

Ryan

Demiurge · #9 07-26-2006, 05:50 PM

Strat trems have their purpose, obviously. A few light bends here, a few warbles there... Leo Fender didn't forsee the crazy techniques that people have developed nowadays. Who could have?

ChopTart · #10 07-26-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiurge

Strat trems have their purpose, obviously. A few light bends here, a few warbles there... Leo Fender didn't forsee the crazy techniques that people have developed nowadays. Who could have?

Someone who watched a Hendrix or Vai concert

How do these things stand the test of time? I used a friend's strat copy and went crazy on his bridge for a year and now the arm is bent completely and the trem is pretty much unusable - how would this compare to a regular fender's?

sniperfrommars1 · #11 07-26-2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrhea

I agree with sniper. You won't get a Floyd performance out of any non-locking trem and that includes any and everything (Parker Flys, EBMM JPs, Fenders, Wilkies, etc.). If you doubt that, then just let me play your guitar for about 1 minute and I promise you it'll be out of tune.

I have/had all them.

On the flip side I can beat the bejezuz out of any of my Edge Pro and Floyd guits without any worries. They just work, period.

Now, with that in mind, I actually like the Fender trems on Strats because I can accept them for what they are, and use them accordingly. When setup properly and with the right playing "tricks" you can appear to never go out of tune for a good while, which is cool.

And when mine do go out of tune, it's usually not very much... pretty much unnoticeable in the mix.

Ryan

So very true. I do actually enjoy using the fender trems for some classic vibrato as i find my edges are far too sensitive sometimes to get the light touch that you can get out of an old fender trem. But in that case i still prefer the newer american standard trems. My all time favorite for this is the fender floyd rose, which is actually somewhat similar to the original non tuning floyd rose prototype, its still somewhat stuff, but doesnt require a locking nut, and with a well cut nut, and good locking tuners you get a good hybrid of the new and old feel.

Randy G · #12 07-27-2006, 12:19 AM

Does anyone know anything about the Samson stock lock? I know it's an old item that never made it, but it would be great if someone made a new version of this. I'd love to put together a guitar with a trad trem and these locking tuners.

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL699.../135050066.jpg

Rotti · #13 07-27-2006, 01:58 AM

I suppose you could bend a trem arm with a lot of use but them you could just bend it back.

ChopTart · #14 11-14-2006, 06:46 PM

Hate to revive a dead thread, but...

Does anyone know how to get make adjustments to the synchronized trem that strats come stock with? You know, stuff that one would normally do to an Edge to adjust it i.e. Tightening the trem arm, stopping loose wiggle once the arm is installed, adjusting arm height, etc. Just a tutorial on the vintage trems is what I'm looking for.

**Ayrton** · #15 11-14-2006, 07:34 PM

Well if have not already, remove the small spring that Fender puts down in the trem hole. That spring galls the thread and will cause the trem arm to break. Do not over tighten the trem arm, instead wrap the threads of the trem arm with teflon tape to make it more snug.