Your gonna hate me, maybe even ban me...

[callen3615]

I tend to agree with this to an extent. I dont know how many times ive heard the my epiphone is better than a gibson. but seriously its wood and electronics. market and promote it as much as you want but i dont thing 3grand is an acceptable price for a guitar. not for an average joe at least. I recently got a rg550 20th anny and its the nicest guitar i have. its not better than my 600 dollar jackson but there dam close. my rg550 has dimarzios in it and its just as good as a jem, no endorsement tho. so yeah you get what you pay for to an extent at some point you just waisting money.

[kotornut]

This is my opinion. Up to a point it's true that price means quality. But not in all cases and not to the point where a lot of people think it makes a difference. Like Callen said, I've played some Epiphones that were very good. I've owned Gibsons that were mediocre. I'd say above $1500 or so it's only nicknacks and extra visually appealing things. But I doubt, whether people will say that I don't know what I'm talking about or not, that there is a significant difference between whether its a AAAA Maple top and just a maple top, tonewise. Even Paul Reed Smith himself says this. And you could go on and on with comparisons like that.

But do I think there is a difference between a $200 guitar and a $1500 guitar? Yes I do. But whether your Epiphone Les Paul Standard/Ultra ($500-$700 guitar) sounds significantly worse than a Gibson Les Paul standard ($2000), no I think not. But it wont have the most gorgeous flame, and maybe not have gold hardware, perhaps not the pickups (I'm not up with the times on Epis but everyone changes the PUPs on guitars anyways). But that doesn't change tone or playability aside from the pups if necessary. Not significantly.

I'll wait for someone to call me out and say you can't tell the difference between good stuff and crap." But in 17 years of playing and owning a myriad of guitars. The best guitar I ever played was and is my RG560, made from Basswood, which is scoffed at by purist who have listened to too much hype and advertising from the big two.

[elcid]

Changing pickups doesn't significantly change the tone?

[kotornut]

Originally Posted by elcid

Changing pickups doesn't significantly change the tone?

Nah it does. Sorry I didn't correct my syntax there. I was trying to say that I don't know if you should change the PUPs on an Epi, but besides that the other things don't seem to change the tone.

[screamndemon69]

Originally Posted by elcid

Changing pickups doesn't significantly change the tone?

or playability? (guess that might be output?)

~Bones

[kotornut]

Originally Posted by screamndemon69

or playability? (guess that might be output?)

~Bones

I don't think output changes the playability, maybe the way it reacts to your playing is changed, but see above for the correctons I made.

[elcid]

Originally Posted by kotornut

Nah it does. Sorry I didn't correct my syntax there. I was trying to say that I don't know if you should change the PUPs on an Epi, but besides that the other things don't seem to change the tone.

Got it. I actually tried buying into the Epi is as good thing a few months back. I bought an Epi SG (supposedly from the "Custom Shop) and A/B'd it to my Gibson 61 RI. The Epi sounded suprisingly good by itself and didnt play awful, but it also was no where close to the Gibson in terms of feel, playability, or tone. For $300 it wasn't bad, but it definately wasnt a Gibson.

The other thing people never think about when they are complaining about price is all the extra things an American company has to pay for. OSHA, higher corporate taxes (America is something like seconds highest in the world at 35%), EPA standards that have to be upheld, of course labor is more expensive and Im sure there is a "Gibson" up charge but the big price difference is not all greed and trying to screw people.

[ColinMmmmm]

I'm all for cheap guitars, but my American strat was totally worth it. It's damn fine. But they aren't what I'd call exorbitant price-wise. I kinda feel like I spoiled myself with it though (cause I should be able to play it better than I do). It's such a sweet guitar.

[mike570]

I think its safe to say most $400-600 guitars from most guitar companies are "okay". They're meant to be that mid-level guitar that people cut their teeth on before saying "hey, I think I want a nicer guitar." If that $400-600 was crap, folks might think the higher-end models are lacking too or they might just give up playing entirely.
I personally love the 350. Is there a big tone difference between an INF pickup and a nice Dimarzio? Hell yes! But some folks might be okay with stock pickups.
Despite my feelings about Gibson guitars I think their quality is top notch, particularly their quit tops and other finishes. You do get a finely-crafted instrument...as you should for paying $2,000-4,000!
Other companies I'm not so sure about. I see $1,800 Fender strats, particularly sig models, where I find myself scratching my head wondering what the big difference is between them and the $800 models. How many "unique" ways can you mod a strat?

[callen3615]

Originally Posted by elcid

higher corporate taxes (America is something like seconds highest in the world at 35%), EPA standards that have to be upheld, of course labor is more expensive.

And why are all of our jobs going overseas???

[callen3615]

Originally Posted by kotornut

Like Callen said, I've played some Epiphones that were very good. I've owned Gibsons that were mediocre.

But do I think there is a difference between a $200 guitar and a $1500 guitar? Yes I do. But whether your Epiphone Les Paul Standard/Ultra ($500-$700 guitar) sounds significantly worse than a Gibson Les Paul standard ($2000), no I think not.

TOTALLY, I have a friend that has 4 gibson les pauls and when he played my epiphone les paul standard plus top he said that it wasn't 2000$ worse than his gibson standard, besides mine looks cooler!

But are gibsons better than epiphone...yes. I played an explorer in GC yesterday that had glue and paint marks on the fretboard and part of the gibson logo was illegible. Then I played its epiphone couterpart. Cosmeticly, it had les blemishies than the gibson, but the gibson played better....I didnt get either but if I was to get one it would probably be the gibson.

[-ben]

I DID NOT read through this thread (minus the first post) but my general conclusion is: with guitars you almost always get what you pay for. There are DEFINITELY rips in the market, but for the most part this is true IMO.

[HeavyMetal4Ever]

I would like to see some sort of test where a bunch of guitarists are blindfolded and given a range of guitars that differ in brand and price point. I would really like to see how a Squire fares against a Fender, or a Gibson vs. Epiphone when the players don't know which is which.

I wonder how brands like Vigier (sp?), Suhr or even PRS would hold up against the more affordable brands?

Rock on!

[kotornut]

Originally Posted by HeavyMetal4Ever

I would like to see some sort of test where a bunch of guitarists are blindfolded and given a range of guitars that differ in brand and price point. I would really like to see how a Squire fares against a Fender, or a Gibson vs. Epiphone when the players don't know which is which.

I wonder how brands like Vigier (sp?), Suhr or even PRS would hold up against the more affordable brands?

Rock on!

I would like that too.

[ColinMmmmm]

Yep - someone should do it - just go to GC or whatever with a blindfold, ask them to hand you guitars, try 'em out and try to guess the price tag.