Duncan invader vs. DiMarzio Drop Sonic (for A-A / 6-string baritone)

[isthmus]

hey all,

i'm new here and have a question about pick-up choices for lower tunings.. I just received my Ibanez RG470xl, strung it with .14-.70's and tuned it A-A. It sounds massive, but i think i'm going to look for a slightly clearer bridge pickup, with more low end response.

i'm down to these two pickups, and i'd really like your input on which one has a clearer/tighter low end, for low tunings. (A-A standard, or drop G)

Seymour Duncan Invader SH-8

DiMarzio DP207 Drop Sonic

I found places that sold either one for 79.95, with free shipping.. so i'd like to know any and all differences between these pick-ups, as price is clearly not a factor.

thanks!
-noel
www.myspace.com/isthmusband

[losgatosrg350dx]

man you are insance go back to B

for the most part drop sonic wont be that clear because it does not have enough compresson and the available db freq gain per freq is subjective to its tonal range. meaning that it picks up lows and mid and high but drops most freq in between them, so as the sound does have a thick chuk to it, it still will not be tight and present, mostly mudd. in fact id recoment the d activator-x if anything close to the drop sonic sound with a less magnet pull....and the magnet on the drop sonic is a higher strength magnet therefore it will slow your strings down faster and kill your pinch harmonics when you are tuned that low

id go with the invader just becasue the magnet is not soo strong, but if you really want something tight go with x2n all the way! you will get a full bodies sound

let me ask you, what guitar are u using to get it soo low..?

[TMatt142]

I disagree.....I've messed around with the SD invaders.....I wasn't impressed at all. My buddy bought an S7420 with one in the bridge position...It sucked. Go with the D-Sonic

[losgatosrg350dx]

dude, you have to use a 1 meg volume pot to hear the invader properly, you probably were on a 500k volume

also i might add, whatever pickup you use, if you are going to stay in suck a low tuning your going to need 2 meg volume pot and probably get rid of the tone pot.....

heres a basic tutorial

http://www.torresengineering.com/how1and2megp.html

but its very important you get the setup right, its not just the pup

[isthmus]

yeah, i think i mentioned that the guitar in question is an ibanez RG470xl (a 27" scale, 6-string baritone w/two humbuckers and a single coil in the middle, and sadly.. a floyd rose that seriously needs to be blocked up)

im leaning towards the drop sonic.. if the duncan blaze is in fact really hot, thats not going to really improve my low-end clarity.. also, i play through the high-gain channel of a vtm-120, so i dont need any extra gain from my pickups. as it is, i really don't have a 'clean' sound.

anybody have the 6-string dimarzio drop sonic in their baritone?

[losgatosrg350dx]

wow, your going to want compression though
i suggest a x2n, then you wont be wanting more....

if you go with a drop sonic your harmonics will end earlier, and your sustain will die faster
it does have a stronger magnet, therefore pulling your strings to a stop faster
and it is not a highly compressed so when you use high gain it will sound spacial

i saw your myspace, and im letting you know, drop sonic is not a LOW tuning pup despite what the name says it does however perferm for drop d and 1 step low......

and it will mudd out more than you think
and a hotter pup will actually benefit your low end
seeing as though it takes more voltage to attenuate bass frequencies and lower voltage to attenuate high end frequencies

in your case the only direction you should go is a d activator x becasue it is actually designed for low low low tunings with a lower magnet stength and properly wound coils for lower tunings. low tunings inherently produce lower signal voltage so you do actually want something hotter to acentuate the low end

[isthmus]

bump.

anybody have any more info?

[rgk7]

I got the D-Activator in my Apex Munky sig and the D-Sonic in my K-7 both guitars tuned to drop A. (Both Mahagony)

The D-Activator sounds more clear to me. More like an active pickup.
But if you like shredding more I´d go for the D-Sonic. It´s more brutal, a chainsaw sound and just sounds more alive.
And I got another D-Sonic in my RG 7420 which was reason enough for my bandmate for installing one in her Universe 7 (Both Basswood) ;-)

No mud or anything...


Sorry I can´t tell you anything about that Duncan.I only use DiMarzio.

[Roland]

Want balls to the walls clarity? Check out Q-tuners, if price is not a factor.

[losgatosrg350dx]

i heard the q tunes were actually quite nice, a new conceptual desing, im surprised no big companies jumped on it yet

[matt7]

According to Dave Weiner, the lower output the pickups are the tighter, less muddy your sound will be. He reccomends the PAF 7. I wouldn't argue with that guy, he KNOWS his stuff lol

[Drew]

Originally Posted by matt7

According to Dave Weiner, the lower output the pickups are the tighter, less muddy your sound will be. He reccomends the PAF 7. I wouldn't argue with that guy, he KNOWS his stuff lol

Sort of.

My experience has been (and I'll admit, it's pretty limited) that generally high output pickups tend to be concentrated in a pretty narrow frequency band. They sacrifice even-ness and depth for a really high spike to really drive the front of an amplifier. This could be because of the pickups themselves, or a product of tube amplification, where as the tubes overdrive they tend to compress, so whichever part of the input signal is hottest will tend to dominate the preamp.

So, a lot of very high output pickups I've played - EMG's, DActivators - tend to actually sound pretty tight under loads of preamp gain, simply because the less powerful sections of the signal are being effectively compressed away to nothing.

The flip side is that lower output humbuckers to me always seem to sound more expansive, more balanced, and more even. At low to medium-high gain settings, that's great - you get a very broad, full, and singing tone. Jack the gain up into the stratosphere, though, and since the signal coming in is less "notched" than a higher output pickup, the whole thing gets reproduced pretty evenly and you tend to get a flubbier low end.

So, this is why something like a Duncan '59 will sound absolutely heavenly through a singing mid-gain distortion sound, but gets a little woofy when you saturate the hell out of the signal, whereas an EMG or a DActivator in the neck will be a bit thinner and snappier in the former settings and just won't have the same "balls" to the tone, but will remain articulate under gain settings that render the '59 a giant soggy ball of sheepskin.

That's my experience, anyway, based on the handful of low and high output pickups I've played that I'm familiar enough with to comment on.

Of course, this could also be intentional on the part of manufacturers - no one buys a set of 707's to play Chicago blues, you know, while very few death metal guys probably buy '59's. High output pickups may be designed to sound clear under tons of gain, whereas low output pickups may be designed for fullness and articulation at lower gain levels.

[Rachmaninoff]

Originally Posted by isthmus

strung it with .14-.70's and tuned it A-A.

Ouch!

You should consider one of these: