KORN setup? KORN sound? still trying

[The Dark Wolf]

Maybe I'm an alien...?

I've never had any problems like that with my 7-strings, whether I've used a .059 gauge, or a .068 (.059 is what I used to use. Now I use a .068. It sounds better, and it's tighter). Still, I've never had to adjust my technique, I've never had tuning stability problems, fret buzz, you name it. For me, it's been like playing a 6 string... only with one more string. The only issue was re-intonating for the LOOOOOW tuning I use, but once I did that, de nada. And I'm classically trained, so I know what I'm doing! Go figure.

Maybe it's because I'm so bee-YOO-ti-ful.

[q-pub]

Originally Posted by guitarkatana

Also, the player has to get used to playing on such a low string. You just can't hit it like a standard tuned guitar and expect it to stay in tune. Learn to pull the string, bend the neck, etc. in real time while playing, especially if you're gonna attack the string hard.

That was the biggest thing I had to adjust to when I went to a 7 with the low string tuned to A. At first I was always getting that annoying 'bow-bow' sound when I hit the open A. Then I realized that if I used a lighter touch, that magically went away..

[Drew]

Yeah, either heavier strings or lighter picks- they accomplish the same thing, really, easing your pick attack a bit. Or, you can do it manually, just not hit the strings quite as hard... I like fender mediums, so I'm doing a little of each (10's + going easy on those low notes when I'm riffing)

-D

[guitarkatana]

I actually don't like tuning way down to B and A too much, however. It's fun, and it can sound great, but it just doesn't hold my interest for long. At the end of the day, the guitar was still built to be a guitar. I generally just tune to standard, Eb, and drop-D. To me, anything lower than D is overkill for a standard guitar.

Doom metal sure is fun, though.

[q-pub]

Originally Posted by guitarkatana

I actually don't like tuning way down to B and A too much, however. It's fun, and it can sound great, but it just doesn't hold my interest for long. At the end of the day, the guitar was still built to be a guitar.

Well.. we are in the 7-string guitar forum here.

[Drew]

Standard gutiar and standard guitar settings, yes, the low B will become too indistinct. However, if you tweak things a bit, and mix the other instruments accordingly, low-tuned guitars can sound GREAT.

Anyway, there's no reason you couldn't tune a 7 string up to a high A, if you don't mind changing strings...

-D

[Two hands31]

See, what I don't get though is that Korn uses 10/11-60 (Head uses 11s apparently) strings, heavy picks, mahogany bodies, and Mesa/Boogie amps (which are notorious around here for being muddy and bassy) and yet still have this amazing sound, how do they do it??

[The Dark Wolf]

It is because they are gods among men, Two Hands, and we are only feeble imitations.

Although, I use .010's, with a .068 bass, and very similiar everything else (amp MODELER instead of true Mesa, but hey, I'm like you. I like 'em) and I get a sound so like them, it isn't funny. Think 'Thoughtless', and I can NAIL that sound.

Maybe it's the Dimarzio's? I know they sound quite a bit different than the stock Ibby pups if the 2027. The TZ/AN combo sounds alot like more beefed-up PAF's. Still has that overall vibe, though.

[guitarkatana]

Korn has tech's and good sound men to setup their rigs, tune their systems, EQ their gear, etc. That's why Korn gets such a good sound.

[Drew]

That, and as soon as you start monitoring your tone through monitors, and not amps, you begin to change how you set your amp. I noticed, before i started EQ'ing to fit the monitors, that my tone had WAY too much treble- I was listening at ear level, while the mic was right in front of the speaker, so i was compensating for the lack of presence I was hearing by boosting the highs.

Add to that the fact that a good tone "in the mix" is much different than a good "solo" tone... My guess would be that Korn use less gain, less bass, and more mids than most people would give them credit for, because that will "cut" a lot better. I'd imagine the lows are rolled off a bit at the board, too-Mesa's are stupidly bass-heavy. Not that i mind, of course, it';s just you need to compensate whenr ecording them a bit...

-D

[Two hands31]

Well, all that makes sense, except for the tuning-stability issues. A .60 guage for a low-A just doesn't work on a 25.5"-scale guitar for me.

I mean, I've got my EQ already set up like you suggested (bass at about 6-7, mids at about 8-9, treble at about 7-8, and gain at about 6) and my tone isn't exact, but it's close and I like it, and that's what matters, right? lol And it gives me the clarity that I like. My main problem is the tuning issues and the string tension.

[The Dark Wolf]

Drew - you're absolutely right. My solo (by myself) tone is actually the same as my llive tone now, because it's what I'm used to. But when I first started fooling around with live vs. bedroom tone issues, I always kept taking out bass and adding tons of mids live. I didn't get it then, but now I do. Without those mids, and with too much bass... you're sunk in mud. No "cut", and that's vital live.

Two Hands - maybe try a heavier guage string (as if you haven't heard that before!) This tuning instability issue puzzles me. I didn't have them even when I used a .059. I use a .068 now, and at Gb, it's fine. Hey, that's it! Maybe you need to adopt MY tuning! Rock solid stable, baby!

[Two hands31]

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

Two Hands - maybe try a heavier guage string (as if you haven't heard that before!) This tuning instability issue puzzles me. I didn't have them even when I used a .059. I use a .068 now, and at Gb, it's fine. Hey, that's it! Maybe you need to adopt MY tuning! Rock solid stable, baby!

I would try a heavier guage string, but my bridge saddles barely go back far enough for the .60-guage The bridge on my Revenger-7 is terrible. But I was playing in A (as I may be practicing with my band again soon, and that's the tuning we use, not just cuz we like Korn, but because it suits our singer's voice lol) and discovered it's not so much tuning stability that's the problem, it's my bridge's intonation and my pickups being too muddy. I tried playing with amp settings, and I've already got my gain down near 5, and my bass backed off (even at full it doesn't have much bass to it compared to a real Triple Recto).

I've realized that Korn's sound now is almost like a distorted bass. Very heavy and bassy, and they don't use chords (even power chords) when playing heavy distorted parts much anymore. They still get that grinding distortion sound when they do though, and when they play single notes on the low strings they still sound very thick and grinding. Their early tone was very solid-state, not much bass to it, and really clear by comparison.

[The Dark Wolf]

You notice that new Schecter C-7 Blackjack, Two Hands? It has a 26.5" scale and has that Tone Pro's locking bridge. Looks pretty nice! And comes stock with SD JB-7 and '59-7, mahogany body and maple neck... put in a Fishman Ghost and that's my guitar right there. I plan on getting one myself and doing just that, when finances allow.

[Two hands31]

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

You notice that new Schecter C-7 Blackjack, Two Hands? It has a 26.5" scale and has that Tone Pro's locking bridge. Looks pretty nice! And comes stock with SD JB-7 and '59-7, mahogany body and maple neck... put in a Fishman Ghost and that's my guitar right there. I plan on getting one myself and doing just that, when finances allow.

Yea, that's definitely one I'm looking at for when I have some money (hopefully this summer)