KORN setup? KORN sound? still trying

[Drew]

yeah, you know, that sounds familiar... i think you might have mentioned that to me once before in an e-mail. Either way, keep me posted.

Tone zone 7 in basswood... yep, that combo is the reason you're now holding my old 2027. Gorgeous guitar, great tone... but after i picked up my 7620 one night for the first time really since i'd bought the 2027, after i left my gigging gear in my vocalist's dorm room after a show we did... even unplugged it just had this resonance to it that the 2027 didn't have, it seemed more "alive"... and then i plugged the thing in, and i was sold.

But god damn it, the mahogany body on that 2027, when it caught the light just right... it was just too beautiful for words. And the neck...

-D

[The Dark Wolf]

You know what Drew... I'm thinking you should have just switched bridge pups on that 2027.

Consider. I've heard LOTS of people say how great the TZ is in basswood/alder etc. In mahogany, eh... reviews have been mixed at best. But take a scooped pup, and in mahogany, everyone seems to love it. But in basswood, eh... again, mixed reviews.

Simple solution. Lundgren M Model. From what I hear, it has lots of bass, lots of treble, scooped mids, and not a real hot output, but enough, I bet that sort of pickup would just SO vibe with mahogany. At the end of the day, balance is what you want, and that pup is designed for a heavy sound with low tunings, and a crisp, clean output. That might have allowed you keep the Holy Grail... the 2027 (Well, to me at least. No WAY I'm parting with mine! )

I'm thinking about trying that pickup myself Drew. But at 200 bones a pop, it ain't cheap. Money cometh!

[Drew]

I did, wordwolf. The 2027 arrived with a Tone Zone in the bridge. Great rhythm tone, especially clean, but it just wasn't cutting it... way too much lower mids for my tastes. So, i swapped it with a guy on the board for a Evo7... This ALMOST saved the guitar. Still gave a good heavy rhythm tone, but also provided an awesome "screaming" lead sound- in feel very similar to Vai, without sounding terribly close to his actual tone. However, it wasn't enough to win out over my TZ-equipped 7620.

So, I was left with a situation where I had a $1000 guitar that i wasn't playing as much because I thought my $400 guitar sounded better. Add to that the fact I was very impressed with how good the DSL-401 i'd used at a gig sounded live, and how much better it cut than the mesa combo i was using at the time, and suddenly the idea of having a grand tied up in a second seven-string seemed a little pointless. Especially when vwall put his TSL head up on the classifieds...

Course, that had might be going, too, as soon as i have the cash aside for the difference between that and a Mark-iv head... I'm a gear whore, i'm never happy.

-D

[The Dark Wolf]

Ah, but I didn't say swap the TZ out with an EVO, Drew. That's jumping from the frying pan into the fire, bro! I knew you did that... (how could I forget your whining er... uh, COMMENTS about doing it? J/K Sorry, Drew. I couldn't resist the cheap shot!)

No, I say you shoulda tried the Lundgren. Mid SCOOPED. Heck, it might suck, but I bet it doesn't in the 2027. You could have had the best of both worlds then, and who knows? It might be your other Ibanez collecting dust now!

Dude, you're never going to be happy until you get that Mark IV!

[He4D]

My K-7 doesnt have problems with the A Tuning..Im not using it but it works fine.. i use 10-58 ernie ballīs.. same scale as your neck.. so .. it must work Btw.. i use Bb Tuning mostly

[The_Grindfiend]

I used to do some B tuning on my mahogany RG 520. WAY too much mud. I liked the sound pretty well for standard tuning, my it was much too squishy with too many harmonics for clarity in B. They overpowered the fundamental.

[Drew]

edit- duplicate.

[Drew]

Wordwolf, probably won't even be happy then. Lead tone is just orgasmic, but I haven't quite nailed the rhythm tone I'm looking for with the thing...

What i really need to do is learn how to wire tube amps, then design my own... a good clean tone, very dark but clear and "open" distortion sound, and a Mark-iv-like lead voice... that and a good 10-watt power section, and I'd be in heaven.

Well, for all of three days. Then i'd start modding, lol.

-D

PS- of course, with the rhythm sound, i WAS running it in triode/tweed power/class A, which would give you the most blurred, compressed low end possible from the thing... Once again, it kills for leads, and it's a sacrifice I might make live, but for recording, i could probably clear that bass frequency blurring up some...

[The Dark Wolf]

I know what you mean Drew. I use a Mark IV sim as my lead sound. Beautiful! Very dark and rich. Technically I prefer (slightly) more of a Marshall lead sound, but I find the Mark IV sim works best live. But for rhythm? Yuck. I use more of a rectifier type sound. More scooped, alot more clarity. There really is a distinction between a good lead and a good rhythm sound (at least to me).

[Drew]

It's amazing how much we agree with each other, wordwolf, seeing as i can't stomache mahogany, and you swear by it. If we lived a little closer, I'd say we need to meet up and check out each other's rigs, just to settle this question once and for all.

That said, if i ever do get around to designing my own amp, it sounds like our tonal needs are pretty similar- i'll let you know when #2 is finished.

-D

[The Dark Wolf]

You're designing your own amp? Wow... pretty ambitious. I wish you good succes on it!

Yeah, I think we tend to have the same things in mind tone-wise. We probably hear the same sound in our heads, just go about 'em slightly differently.

Of course, I get all the sounds I want out of my GNX3. It takes tweaking, but really, live? I highly doubt most players here could tell I was using an amp sim. Oh, I know... I've heard all the arguments. But I still doubt it. I've A/B'd my setup with others, and my sound is usually better. Plus, I get to easily have what are basically my 4 main sounds.

1. Rich, dark clean with chorus (very jazzy)
2. Nice middy, dirty crunch (a la AC/DC)
3. Scooped, heavy Rectifier distortion (Sorta Korn meets Godsmack)
4. Beautiful lead (Again, a straight up Mark IV sim through a greenback 4x12)

With that being said, I still wouldn't mind trying out a nice tube power amp and good speaker combo (maybe the new Carvin and maybe a Genz-Benz 2x12). I'd still most likely run my mains direct however, and get most of my foldback from monitors. Plus, as much as I love my 2027, I'd still like to try an extended scale. I'm thinking that new Schecter, if I can figure out how to put a Ghost piezo system in it (according to Jim Soloway, not easy. According to Graphtech and TonePros, an easy retrofit. I dunno. You decide. No word yet from Schecter about it). I really like my sound though, and at the end of the day, that's really the only thing that matters. But us guitarists are never completely satisfied.

[Drew]

I WANT to, wordwolf. There's a difference.

Yeah, I've noticed most of the live modeled tones I've heard that really sucked (i.e- all of them) appeared to have been programed by either idiots or guys with no sense of creativity. I.E- big, thick, full low end, scooped-out midrange, and a ton of presence. Add bass and drums, and suddenly the guitar's playing hide-and-seek with the crash cymbols and snare. Or, we have cover bands who get the recorded tones of the bands they're covering down 99.5%, and end up sounding just like a jukebox. I hate that in a band.

Thing is, though, i'm not big on chorus. I mean, it's an awesomely useful effect for when you want to make a guitar "sit" in the back of a mix; it robs the track of so much of its' presence and attack, and sometimes that's good (suggested listening: a live version of Floater's "Persecutor," where this wodnerfully splashy clean tone compliments the world's greatest bass riff (next to forty-six and 2, of course) unobtrusively, then comes out of nowhere when they kick in the gain for the chorus). It's an effect I'll use while recording, but even if I had a chorus pedal or good FX processor, i'd say 99% of my rhythm playing would be without it; it's useful when you want a gutiar to not call attention to itself, but IMO tha's about it.

So, my current setup, for tones...

clean tone- full, yet still reasonably bright- the TSL doesn't do superbright so well, so it's pretty balanced, i guess. Cuts well, anyway.

crunch sound- hey, I'd prefer a darker recto-like tone, too, but it's there, and too good to just not use, so... Much mroe present and cutting than my...

lead sound- gainy, yet dark enough in the highs to still be pretty smooth.

not perfect,b ut it keeps me happy

-D

[The Dark Wolf]

Well Drew, I'd say this... most of what people use as a 'chorus' effect is really more similar to a detuning effect. That lush, swirling sound. Definitely robs your sound of attack. What I use however, is a stereo chorus that ONLY is used for stereo seperation. Basically, my sound deosn't even sound chorused. It sounds like two guitars, right and left, playing in perfect sync. If anything, it's louder and has MORE attack. Put detuning on it, and buh-bye. But, I only use that for some occasional clean stuff. A true stereo chorus is a different animal. It's like instantaneous double tracking.

I know what you mean about the knuckleheads and their magical disappearing tone. You play a Marshall, so mids are always there for you. But those that don't... now you see why I like some of that mid present in the sound live.

[The_Grindfiend]

Wow, I look for almost the exact opposite tones that you guys do. I like my clean tone very dark, with slightly scooped or flat mids, and slightly boosted bass. I'm not quite happy with my lower gain, bluesy tone, so I won't comment on it yet, but I like my heavy rhythm to be very bright, with somewhat boosted mids, and relatively flat bass. Though I really like darker lead tones, too, like Holdsworth (and especially Frederick Thordendal's lead tone on the song Closed Eye Visuals), most of the time I like brighter, more aggressive lead tones. Think of Ron Thal's tone on the Bumblefoot song Vomit.

[Freaker]

1st A good amp ...I use a Engl Powerball, I use chanel 3 at 11:00hr position, and tweak a bit with my Boss GX700 and my behringer PEQ-2000 Eq.
A Marshall 1960A cabinet, two RG7620, one with Dimarzio Blaze and the other with Blaze Custom.
Strings, Dean Markley Blue Steel 0.10-0.52 plus a DM 0.60. No tension or tunning problems at all with A tunning.

I think I can say I have that Korn Sound. I hope to make a link with my bandīs last recording.
We are in the Korn way...so you would judge.

Of course, recording with double tracking in each channel and double micīd.

Making another cab with Eminence speakers.

Letīs see.

Bye