KORN setup? KORN sound? still trying

[Joshka]

Hi, I have an RG7620. I am looking for the KORN sound.

I initially started off with 10-56 strings, and it seemed pretty good for B tuning, but obviously wasn't going to good for one step down.

So I put Dean Markely, 10-60, and I find its less loose (as you would expect), but I am still unhappy about the tone I am getting.

It seems as though the low A string is unstable. it seems that the pitch is not stable (esp. on open fret)

I have noticed after reading tons of posts on this section of the forum that people are using as thick at 70 guage for their B string.

I would like to try going thicker, but I am also concerrned about bending/damaging my neck (because of too much tension)

I have noticed that my RG270 has a crack in the neck, which I presume could be because of the setup/tension I put it under with a set of fat strings - but maintained in stanard tuning.

has anyone successful got their guitar sounding good in ADGCFAD tuning?

I have read somewhere on this site that their is a Dean Markley korn string set (10-60) , which, if the case, is the same set I have on mine. (Although mine was made from a 6 string set, using an extra 60)

even if I don't get "the KORN sound", I still want a good fat A tuning sound, which I am not getting. I am suspecting that 60 is not thick enough for an A

[Joshka]

just some additionm info:

it's really annoying, cause I feel as though I have to palm mute the low A power chord, and the rest of the low ones - in order to get a good sound that you can actually hear the A tone properly. otherwise if I don't palm mute at least a little bit.

I play through a BOSS GT6 and then into either a HIFI stereo, or a PA, or a Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 into my marshall 4x12 cabinet.

Either way, it's still not good enough.

I have heard my stereo play nice A power chords (from CD's - like KORN)

I don't expect to get the "KORN sound" but I just want an 'in your face' distict A power chord happening

it should almost have everything I need already. it just needs something, I am trying to find. something in the way of setup, strings... something

Once again, I have an RG7620

[Two hands31]

I know exactly how you feel about the tuning issues, I'm using a Schecter Revenger-7 (same scale length/woods, hardtail) with the same strings you're using (yep, 6-string set with an added 60) and I also have that unstable sound on the low string. I'm thinking the best way to go is an XL-scale guitar, but since that's likely not an option, I'm not sure what to tell you. Did you adjust the intonation when you put on the new guage strings? Korn uses the same scale as the RG you're using and they don't seem to have any trouble, so I'm not sure what the problem is (got me stumped with my own guitar too).

[Joshka]

yeah man, it's really odd, and annoying, and time consumimg, and upsetting.

I don't know what the issue is, but, I did hear someone on this forum mention some term which sounded like it might be what is happening here.

I will try and find it, and get back to you

[darren wilson]

You don't need to ask the same set of questions in half a dozen threads. Most of us read the whole forum and we'll get to it.

Are you having tuning problems, or is it just the "punch" you're not getting from the low A? My advice would be to back off on the gain on your distorted tone. I also use a GT-6, and i learned a lot about how to structure my Rectifier tone by actually going out and playing a real Mesa. If i'm using the "Rectifier Red" model (equivalent of Mesa's "Modern" high gain mode), i generally set the gain to around 40%, and i only adjust the low, mid and high EQ just slightly above or below 50% to tweak the tone a little bit. You can also use the "Rectifier Orange" model which is roughly equivalent to Mesa's "Vintage" high gain mode, and bump your gain up to about 60%.

It's surprising how little gain you need on a Rectifier to get a good thick distorted tone. If you go overboard, things quickly become muddy and indistinct, especially in the low end.

I use .011 to .070 on my 7-string in standard tuning (but with the low B dropped to A) with no ill effects on the neck. If you're having tuning/intonation problems on the low A, you might have to lighten up on your touch a bit. If you're really slamming the strings hard, you'll get that "bow-bow" sound that so many of us hate.

[The Dark Wolf]

I tune my standard scale (25.5") Ibanez down to Gb (F# fer you un-inititated), I use a .068 gauge low string, AND my guitar is mahogany, and I still get a tight, punchy sound. Almost like Dimebag meets Korn, for my rhthym distorted sounds, and I use a processor as well (Digitech GNX3).

I think Darren is right. Watch your EQ settings (sometimes more mids is a good thing, if you use them right), and you will find that you don't need tons of gain. I use a rectifier-type setting just like Darren, and my gain is maybe 50%... it STILL sounds sizzley and punchy. I'm a gain freak, but too much=muddy. So I learned, "Back off fuzzmaster," and the sound is SWELL.

Hope this helps ya.

[Two hands31]

I use a Line6 Flextone II (why is it we all use digital in this thread? ) and mostly the Rectified II model (based on Triple Rectifier I think), I tend to have my gain cranked, though I've been experimenting with less gain, and I have my bass control at about 8 (out of 10), mids at about 6-9 depending on what I'm going for, and treble maxed out. I also turn on the "EQ" or "Presence" (essentially a treble boost, it's called different things on the amp itself and the pedalboard), the volume boost, and the distortion boost, and of course, noise gate.

[darren wilson]

Originally Posted by Two hands31

I tend to have my gain cranked, though I've been experimenting with less gain, and I have my bass control at about 8 (out of 10), mids at about 6-9 depending on what I'm going for, and treble maxed out. I also turn on the "EQ" or "Presence" (essentially a treble boost, it's called different things on the amp itself and the pedalboard), the volume boost, and the distortion boost, and of course, noise gate.

See, i used to do that, and then i got into the "less is more" mindset. The more you crank the gain with low tunings, the more mud you get, and then you have to compensate by cranking the mids and highs on the EQ to clear up the mud, but then you also add noise.

Or maybe it's just differences between the way Roland and Line 6 programmed their Rectifier models. There's no way i'd be able to get away with the settings you use, Twohands!

[Two hands31]

Originally Posted by darren wilson

See, i used to do that, and then i got into the "less is more" mindset. The more you crank the gain with low tunings, the more mud you get, and then you have to compensate by cranking the mids and highs on the EQ to clear up the mud, but then you also add noise.

Or maybe it's just differences between the way Roland and Line 6 programmed their Rectifier models. There's no way i'd be able to get away with the settings you use, Twohands!

I haven't tried any Recto modellers other than my Line6 (and a Johnson Millenium I just couldn't get a decent sound out of for the life of me ), so it could just be the Line6. I know when I use the Insane setting I have to back off the gain a bit. I've been trying out lower gain settings though, and while it's gotten some decent results, I keep going back to the full-on gain....don't really know why

[Akhenaten]

I agree with these guys...the first thing I used to do when I heard that sound was turn the gain up till the knob was gonna break off at 10...lol

But backing it off will give you alot of articulation and bring back the sound of the guitar. Nowadays, I have actual Mesa's and the trick you're also missing with Korn's tone is that it's those amps being pushed extremely hard. The output section of a Recto does that when it's pegged, and it's nothing I've ever gotten from a Marshall or anything else. Somehow it all works together. Also remember there's two of them. While it's true that Munky and Head have a huge sound when they slam the distortion at you, it's the effect of the two of them together that makes that wall of sound that just makes your hair stand up...

[Joshka]

so, what they do is, turn the gain down quite a bit, but then have the volume turned up HEAPS far? I might go and play with my GT6, I might try using a different amp model, and also maybe try backing off the drive on my distortion pedal model (Metal Zone)

darren wilson - thanks for your advice about the gt6 settings. I am going to try that now. It could be starting to make sense to me now, because i myst say, that I am happy with my clean sound. It's just the distortion I can't get happy with. So, this may be telling me, the guitar is fine, it's the processing which is not right.

I'll get back to you shortly

[Joshka]

I just tried the rectifier models on my GT-6, and I am not sure if I am still happy with the sound (to say the least)

although, if I used the GT6 EQ and took heaps of bass out, I think I might have got it sounding a bit like the intro to KORN - Fagget

but as for the fat sound KORN gets, I am still left in the dark.

About the less gain thing, I was always suspicious that KORN may have involved a setup with less gain, because they always seem to be able to rest their guitars well. (As should most good bands), but whenever I need to rest, I get a least some noise, if not feedback.

(I have also seen KORN live about 2 weeks ago) and, their sound is KORN..

Would anyone be interested in hearing a recording? in order to demonstrate the sound I am suffering with.

[darren wilson]

You might also try using a different distortion. The Metal Zone might be a bit too shrill and harsh to capture the depth and fatness of the Korn sound.

Try one of the more subtle distortions with moderate gain. I can't remember which one i use, but it's either the Tube Screamer or the Blues Driver or something similar. And i only use enough of it to give a touch of bite and punch. If you layer too much "distortion pedal" down, that's all you hear... that buzzy, transistor-like sound.

To get the "quiet" between playing notes, use a noise gate. I find that also helps to make riffs sound a bit heavier, because when you're muting, the gate slams shut and really gives the notes a lot of punch.

I also find a lot of the Korn sound -- from what i've been able to reproduce, mostly by happenstance -- involves using a nice warm and tight sounding bridge pickup (i have a JB in my 7, which also has a mahogany body) and picking relatively close to the bridge. So technique comes into it as well.

A sound clip would definitely help.

[Joshka]

ok what I might do is record a few sound samples in one high quality mp3 file, which you can all download.

Equipment used for recording:

*RG7620
*BOSS GT6
*Sound Blaster live sound card

I will record a raw signal (bypass)
A simple clean sound
A more effected clean sound (sounds really nice)

and a few distortion sounds

I will actually record a few separate sessions, and break them up into different categories.

The first category will be open fret A string (which is actually tuned to A#)

be critical when listening to the tone/pitch

Ultimately I am not happy with the sound I am getting. Esp. on the low end. Basically I am finding the low notes not very distinctive.

Here we go.. I will upload my recordings very soon

[Joshka]

you can download sample recordings on my guitar through a BOSS GT6 here: http://home.iprimus.com.au/jayrock100/guitar2.htm