longer neck scale length

[rbjammin]

I am thinking about building a Warmoth 7 string and they only offer two scale lengths for their necks: 25" and 28 5/8". From what I understand, having a longer scale length will help keep the low B clear, so I'm thinking the 28 5/8" would be the way to go. I am fairly comfortable playing a 7 string with a 25 1/2" scale length. Do you think a 28 5/8" scale length would be difficult to play?

Other things to consider:
will be playing in standard tuning: BEADGbe
body: alder
neck: maple with ebony board
pickups: humbucker in bridge, single coil in neck
bridge: fixed, strings going through the body
amp: Mesa DC-5, 2x12 cabinet with 30 watt Celestion Greenbacks
-desired tone: warm/clear crunch in bridge, warm/snappy in neck

Thanks for any suggestions!

[The_Grindfiend]

With an extra 3 1/8", you'll be able to tell a difference, especially on big chords that require stretching, but it shouldn't be too bad. THe only thing is, now your high strings are going to suffer a bit as a result of the longer scale length. You might not be able to get a high E with that. I don't know. At any rate, you'll have to use thinner strings up top.

[Jim Soloway]

I've been experimenting with scale length for about 3 years and I don't think you;d be able to get that anywhere near standard pitch. I think you'd have to tune down by at least a full tone and possibly two. It's also going to be a serious stretch at the bottom of the fingerboard. The real benefit of an extended scale length in standard pitch starts at around 26 1/16 and I think it tops out at 27 inches.

[Higgs]

Just thought I'd chime in here... I built a mahogany-bodied Warmoth 7-string with the 28 5/8" neck about two years ago. As Jim hinted at, the scale length is basically 'two frets' longer than a standard 25.5, if you go by the usual estimate of 1.0595 that each fret increases the total scale length by.

In any case, since I prefer 10-46s on most of my standard scale guitars, I just blindly dropped one gauge lighter assuming the individual string tensions would be fairly close to the normal set of 10s. This is all geared toward having the 7-string in normal BEADGbe. In that tuning, full-step bends were easily had on the top .009, but things did get a bit touchy once you push it past that.

Eventually I ran across a string tension calculator that someone thankfully took the time to design, which gave me reason to increase the low B to .056 in order to closer match tension with the rest of the set. The current strings tensions came out to the following:

.009 - 7.51kg
.011 - 6.29
.015 - 7.37
.024 - 9.01
.032 - 9.01
.042 - 8.44
.056 - 8.45

and a standard set of 10s on 25.5":

.010 - 7.35kg
.013 - 6.98
.017 - 7.52
.026 - 8.35
.036 - 8.86
.046 - 7.93

Sorry for the long post.

[Kontalonis]

I thought that baritones were usually for people who tune lower.

[analogcreature]

they can be, but ive heard that the extended length of a baritone guitar is better for a standard tuned low B than a 25.5 neck

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Higgs

Just thought I'd chime in here... I built a mahogany-bodied Warmoth 7-string with the 28 5/8" neck about two years ago. As Jim hinted at, the scale length is basically 'two frets' longer than a standard 25.5, if you go by the usual estimate of 1.0595 that each fret increases the total scale length by.

In any case, since I prefer 10-46s on most of my standard scale guitars, I just blindly dropped one gauge lighter assuming the individual string tensions would be fairly close to the normal set of 10s. This is all geared toward having the 7-string in normal BEADGbe. In that tuning, full-step bends were easily had on the top .009, but things did get a bit touchy once you push it past that.

Eventually I ran across a string tension calculator that someone thankfully took the time to design, which gave me reason to increase the low B to .056 in order to closer match tension with the rest of the set. The current strings tensions came out to the following:

.009 - 7.51kg
.011 - 6.29
.015 - 7.37
.024 - 9.01
.032 - 9.01
.042 - 8.44
.056 - 8.45

and a standard set of 10s on 25.5":

.010 - 7.35kg
.013 - 6.98
.017 - 7.52
.026 - 8.35
.036 - 8.86
.046 - 7.93

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for all this info, Higgs! I've been curious about this for a LONG time, as those Warmoth's looked great. But I wasn't sure about that scale... I even talked to the Warmoth people, and they told me that it wouldn't work for standard pitch on the high strings. But then I talked to someone with a Conklin, that was a long scale, 28", 29", something like that, and he said he used .008's tuned to stndard E with no problem. It's nice to see someone who actually USES the Warmoth long scale neck and says it can work. I suppose a .009 at Eb would be no problem.

Any more info about that Warmoth, and the scale? Thoughts, playing issues, etc? Because I'd really like to try it out.

Thanks again!

[rbjammin]

Thank you all for the helpful replies. I hadn’t thought about the string gauge and tuning issues. It seems the 28 5/8” scale length would probably not suit me.

Does anyone think that a 25” scale length would present difficulties in achieving bottom end clarity that could not be overcome by using the correct combination of body/neck/fingerboard wood and pickups?

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by rbjammin

Thank you all for the helpful replies. I hadn’t thought about the string gauge and tuning issues. It seems the 28 5/8” scale length would probably not suit me.

Does anyone think that a 25” scale length would present difficulties in achieving bottom end clarity that could not be overcome by using the correct combination of body/neck/fingerboard wood and pickups?

I've owed a couple of 25 inch scale length 7 strings them including a magnificent Baker. I thought it was just too short for the low string to work properly, but then I tune my extra string to an A. I'm a great believer in longer scale lengths for 7 strings. It's what I play and what we build. Obviously the guitars we make are not for every one, but there are lots of really good alternative: the Ibanez XL's, the ESC Carpenter, the Schecter Black Jack.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

I've owed a couple of 25 inch scale length 7 strings them including a magnificent Baker. I thought it was just too short for the low string to work properly, but then I tune my extra string to an A. I'm a great believer in longer scale lengths for 7 strings. It's what I play and what we build. Obviously the guitars we make are not for every one, but there are lots of really good alternative: the Ibanez XL's, the ESC Carpenter, the Schecter Black Jack.

I agree. The Schecter Blackjack looks like a good compromise to extended scale and conventional playability, with 26.5".

To be honest, Jim's guitars look incredible. If they came with a peizo trem... whoa. Might be about the perfect 7 (For my tastes, at least.)

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

I agree. The Schecter Blackjack looks like a good compromise to extended scale and conventional playability, with 26.5".

To be honest, Jim's guitars look incredible. If they came with a peizo trem... whoa. Might be about the perfect 7 (For my tastes, at least.)

A trem option is under developement and should be available by the fall. I'm not sure if a piezo option will work with it yet.

[The Dark Wolf]

Did you see that new Hipshot 7-string trem unit, Jim? Looks very classy and nice (similar to your Hipshot Swan fixed 7's it seemed).

Looks like they would fit Graphtech saddles as well. Wonder what the piezo situation would be like there? I've always wanted to try to make almost the exact same scenario work, so that I could try an extended scale 7 that would be similar to my RG2027. I must admit, I like 25.5", and it works great for my tastes, but ever curious!

[Jim Soloway]

Originally Posted by Wordwolf

Did you see that new Hipshot 7-string trem unit, Jim? Looks very classy and nice (similar to your Hipshot Swan fixed 7's it seemed).

Looks like they would fit Graphtech saddles as well. Wonder what the piezo situation would be like there? I've always wanted to try to make almost the exact same scenario work, so that I could try an extended scale 7 that would be similar to my RG2027. I must admit, I like 25.5", and it works great for my tastes, but ever curious!

That's the one. We're just getting started on a 6 string version now and from there going to the 7 is easy. I know someone using the 7 string version already. He loves it and he's had some of the most expensive 7 string trem guitars of all time. I'll have a better idea in a few weeks how the piezo system will work with it.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

That's the one. We're just getting started on a 6 string version now and from there going to the 7 is easy. I know someone using the 7 string version already. He loves it and he's had some of the most expensive 7 string trem guitars of all time. I'll have a better idea in a few weeks how the piezo system will work with it.

That's awesome. I've been eyeing a trem system similar to that for awhile, and when I saw the Hipshot, I thought it might be a winner. Nice to hear it's well-recieved.

Time to save. This works out, I'll almost definitely be ordering a Swan.

[Societysucks]

I find 27.5" to 28" scale necks to be nice On guitars with thin necks, but find them to be horible and too "chunky" on guitars like epiphones and and gibsons, there barritones for example feel far to stiff, but I imagine a nice Ibanez 7 string neck, would take well to a larger scale. I don't know about the warmouths though, never played 'em.

no matter how they fell, I think longer nekcs SOUND better. Pitty I can't play half of them...