low B response

[sam669]

ok, I played my 2027x in the morning, and a K7 in the afternoon.
I already played a K7 and a 7620 a while ago. I then liked the K7 for the thickness of the sound, but prefered the 7620 for the clarity, punch and "baow" sound of the 7th string, if you see what I mean.
Then I got my 2027x, the sound is quite thick, but muuuddy! When I play a powerchord on the seventh, it sounds quite fat and low but thats all... the definition sucks, its just a low tomato soup
After reading Drew's posts and experiencing the problem with my 2027 and the first K7, I put a name on the problem: mahogany
But today I played another K7, and I was damn surprised that it had that seventh string "baow" sound, killer repsponse, what a snap!! I still cant believe it! The sound was like in Korn's "Faget" to help you picture, just that the guitar was tuned to B.
So what the hell is the problem with my RG? Intonation? Any other kind of setup thing? The bridge pickup (stock)? Sucky wood?
I don't think it has to do with string gauge, as I have a 0.58 for my low B, and the K7 I played definitely had something thinner, 0.52 maybe, I had to be careful not too press too much or the string would slip outside the fretboard...

... HELP!!

[darren wilson]

Are you talking about the amplified sound or the unamplified sound?

Several things to try:

1. Lower your pickups. A lot of rock players put their pickups too close to the strings. Yes, you get higher output and lots of "oomph" but you also sacrifice string definition and note articulation. A couple of people have posted their findings after discovering that their Tone Zones were too close to the strings, and lowering them completely changed the sound.
2. Change your pickups. The stock pickups on the 2027 might not be as good as they could be for capturing 7 string dynamics. Again, hotter pickups may not give you the kind of clarity and definition you're after. Korn use PAF7s, which are medium-output, vintage-voiced pickups. Hotter pickups tend to garble the low end a bit. Try switching to your neck pickup.
3. Try different strings. I've never found D'Addario strings to have really good punch and definition. Their sound has always left me uninspired. Try a set of GHS Boomers on your guitar and see if that gives you the kind of snap you're looking for. You could also try going up a gauge or two. I recently started using .011 to .070 on my 7-string and it's never sounded better.
4. Try raising your action a bit. This one will no doubt be unpopular with most shredders, but sometimes your note articulation on low chords will go out the window if there's even a hint of buzz. Your strings will lose their attack and their vibrational energy much quicker if they're too low. I'm not talking drastic amounts, just a tiny fraction to give the strings a bit more room to vibrate above the frets.

Any of these might do the trick on their own or in combination. Or they might not. There's a chance your 2027 just might be made from a slab of mahogany that just doesn't resonate at the frequencies you're looking for. Sometimes it happens. But there's a lot you can try to compensate.

[sam669]

I have a little low B buzz at the 5th fret or so... Hmm how much should I turn? A little 8th of a turn counter clock-wise?

Anyways, I played around some more with my guitar and the gear I had around me, and decided to plug the guitar into a POD (Recto model) to see what happens. Plugged into an amp (H&K), it was still the same: somewhat low, but thats all, nothing exciting... But using headphones directly at the pod gave me that "baow" thing, that snap. Still too midrangey, but at least it had the snap!
Cool, but I'm suspicious: isn't that POD faking everything? I mean, you cant really tell about a guitar's character (sp?) with those things... If my 2027 has some snap and almost decent overall riff sound with a POD, can I hope to have it good sounding in a real amp?! Is the wood actually not a piece of crap (considering what I'm looking for)?
I remember playing it through a VOX Valvetronix, and well it sounded like a fat boat horn but otherwise... (still had the old 9-52 strings though)...

As for now thanks to Darren for the help I'm gonna try these!

[The Dark Wolf]

This one always has me scratching my head...

I have a 2027, too, and blah blah (I've went on about this a ton. Sick of reading myself ) I tune REEEEEAL low, it's mahogany, I use the TZ7... you get the picture. I just can never seem to see the "mud" thing. I don't think my 2027 sounds like a guitar with EMG's or anything, but it always sounds clear and tight to me. Thick, yes. Midrangey in the bridge, boomy and powerful... but always crisp and sweet.
To me, the guitar sounds like Korn's sound in "Untouchables." Go figure, mahogany RG-7's with Dimarzios. Only the TZ7 makes it sound a bit 'middier' sometimes, more like Michael Schenker of Scorpion fame (no surprise, since he used mahogany Gibson's alot, with a middy pickup and amp, right?) Well, make it 75% Korn, and 25% Schenker, and there ya go. But it never seems muddy. In fact, when I read something like this, I scratch my head and think, "Maybe I'm doing something wrong?!" But after a few days of playing and listening, I go right back to thinking everything is perfect! I dunno... maybe it's just up to the person. Here's some things I think, tho.

1. The 2027/TZ7 with it's "mid" ("mud" to some, ) cuts through a band mix like NONE else. I have a beater 7, basswood body, and that things is HEAVY by itself. In the mix? Bye-Bye! Have to crank the volume to be heard.
2. The Dimarzio's are a lot "snappier" than the stocks. Everybody wants a kick-a$$ bridge pickup, but I think Korn has it right. Those PAF7's seem to be reeeeel nice to mahogany and low tunings. Maybe think about some new pups, Sam. I liked the 2027 stockers OK, (Enough to throw 'em in another guitar) but I like the Dimarzios better. Maybe it'll work for you, and then again, maybe basswood(Drew)/longer scale(Jim Soloway)
will work.
3. Heavier gauge strings are an improvement. Lots more "snap". Try that. I use Elixirs, .010 to .068, and it's a real good sound for me. (I bet an even heavier gauge bass string would sound even better.)

[The_Grindfiend]

While we're talking about low B response, I picked up my guitar yesterday and hit the low B, and it seemed to fade a lot quicker than the other strings. Does anyone know what may be causing this? Thanks.

[Drew]

Grindfiend, what are you using for your low e, and for your low B? My bet would be lower string tension on the B in relation to the rest cutting sustain, and upping the guage a bit ought to help you.

Figures, i go away for a week or two (no net access, just moved), and a conversation like this springs up. well, better late than never...

It COULD merely be the result of differences in individual peices of wood, but it shouldn't be. Here's my thoughts...

1.) pods are always pretty muddy and indistinct to my ears compared to a real amp, anyway- was this second K7 played through a pod, or a tube amp?

2.) everything darren said. Good advice, especially for lowering pickups. Less gain on the amp for rhythm might help, too.

Hmm. can't think of anything darren missed.

On a side note, i love the fact that i've been associated with the "mahogany doesn't work for 7's" to the point that my name is used to signify the argument... it's kinda flattering, lol.

-D

[The Dark Wolf]

You've sparked a revolution, Drew! (Altho not with me. I love mahogany )

BTW, my pickups are as close to the body as they go (direct-mounted of course, but all the way down. About 1/4" clearance between pickup and string +/- .

[sam669]

Originally Posted by Drew

1.) pods are always pretty muddy and indistinct to my ears compared to a real amp, anyway- was this second K7 played through a pod, or a tube amp?

I played it through a hughes & kettner vortex head (solide-state circ) at a shop

[The_Grindfiend]

Well, Drew, this is the thing: I would have thought of that myself, except that I currently have a .060 for B. I usually prefer a .065, and this might work better, but the guitar shop was out of .065 Anyway, I'm in drop B, so the 5th string is F#, and it's .046 I think. .046 or .048.