"acceptable" tuning stability

jeffrg270 · #1 11-29-2003, 03:31 PM

Hey there,

I've read and heard a lot of people talk about tuning stability with the 2003 edge pro bridges, and lots of times they'll say that tuning stability after a full dive or full pullup on the whammy bar will return "almost" 100%, but very rarely will you actually have perfect stability after such a technique...

I'm wondering...what's "normal" as far as tuning stability is concerned?

When I do a full whammy bar dive, and strike a note (especially on the G string) and follow it with the same note on the same string after a full pull up, I notice a slight difference. on the little electric tuner I have, the needle, when it's in the middle, points to 440 hz, and there's 10 hz on either side (so it goes from 430 to 450)...

Well...when I do a full dive to a full pull up, my tuning travels about 10 hz. (from about 435-445)...it's audible to me, and I'm not sure if this sort of tuning stability is within normal limits.

Could anybody who has more experience than me on this matter (that should be almost all of you!) just give some feedback on this when you get a chance?

thanks very much!
-J

sp7bsb · #2 11-29-2003, 03:39 PM

I have a bsb and vsbl. When I pull up on the bar EAD strings return to 0 but the G string returns to a +.10 and the B is +.05 and the high E is 0. I would also like to know if this is normal or should I be expecting better results?

Jeroenn · #3 11-29-2003, 04:50 PM

I've just tried this with my Jems. They come back perfectly.

Hang on...

<insert Vai-like whammy abuse, neighbours banging on the wall, police calls at the door>

Yep, perfectly in tune.

Rich · #4 11-29-2003, 04:55 PM

Sure, everybody has perfect guitars, must be just the ones I work on that aren't.

Pull-up test means it's perfectly in tune after a bar down, let rise to neutral, fine tune. Pull up, let bar come back to rest without pushing it past neutral. If you're not doing it on a tuner don't even bother.

The problem has been around a long time, the studs were bad forever and the knives just kept getting wider making the return worse and worse. Solved [mostly] by mid year 01' with the new stud design [and a little trimming off the knives usually].

No idea on Hz. The G has always been a trouble spot, if the wounds are coming back OK it's pretty OK to me.

Jeroenn · #5 11-29-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Sure, everybody has perfect guitars, must be just the ones I work on that aren't.

Pull-up test means it's perfectly in tune after a bar down, let rise to neutral, fine tune. Pull up, let bar come back to rest without pushing it past neutral. If you're not doing it on a tuner don't even bother.

Just did that. Only the low E shows 3 stripes (3/80 of a half step) sharp on my G-Marjor display.

The Trem and posts came out of your shop btw...

Strings are about 2.5 weeks old and played extensively every day.

Rich · #6 11-29-2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeroenn

The Trem and posts came out of your shop btw...

Strings are about 2.5 weeks old and played extensively every day.

Then I'd consider it pretty OK

RSVampire · #7 11-29-2003, 05:59 PM

they also had redesigned the trem to be a Zero Resistance this past year. Supposed to be good since it works with ball bearings instead of knife edges and such. Rich can give a a run down of it and all the trems at his website ibanezrules.com

jeffrg270 · #8 11-29-2003, 09:38 PM

I'm assuming the zero-resistance bridges take care of this problem (hence the name), but the jems for 2003 all use edge pro bridges. That's why I'm curious what kind of tuning range people get with 2003 jems...

-J

Dr_Guitar · #9 11-30-2003, 08:06 PM

I yanked the threaded post inserts & replaced them with a pair of flat bottomed inserts & posts with locking set screws, Gotoh offers these, allparts sells em cheap too. I got the trem a bit more stable, but its no where near as stable as a real Floyd. Theres a lot more weight further back from the knive edges, I can only assume this is making the trem unstable. Im setting up a few of these a week & im not too impressed so far. Its more stable with 10-46 strings. Im experimenting with different springs as well.

Rich · #10 11-30-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Guitar

I got the trem a bit more stable, but its no where near as stable as a real Floyd. Theres a lot more weight further back from the knive edges, I can only assume this is making the trem unstable. .

I just got my laugh for the day, thanks.

The Edge Pro has less weight at the tail and is now way thicker [more weight] at the knives. And there's no point in doing major surgery reinstally inserts when the set screws do the same job without altering the guitar, so installing inserts is pointless. And I've been getting near perfect return on pull-ups [always perfect on dives] so how any FR could be better is beyond me. Maybe you just didn't finish the job, or aren't using the good redesigned studs currently available.

DirtyBird31 · #11 12-01-2003, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

No idea on Hz. The G has always been a trouble spot, if the wounds are coming back OK it's pretty OK to me.

Have you ever tried using a wound g string? I wonder if this would improve things...

Dr_Guitar · #12 12-01-2003, 09:30 PM

I just got my laugh for the day, thanks.

The Edge Pro has less weight at the tail and is now way thicker [more weight] at the knives. And there's no point in doing major surgery reinstally inserts when the set screws do the same job without altering the guitar, so installing inserts is pointless. And I've been getting near perfect return on pull-ups [always perfect on dives] so how any FR could be better is beyond me. Maybe you just didn't finish the job, or aren't using the good redesigned studs currently available.[/quote]

I tried the set screw mod & was unable to get the posts low enough, to get the desired bridge height with out removing them several times to grind them. I simply install the Gotoh inserts & posts. Something is different about this trem that makes return to pitch less reliable than the Lo Pro Edge. Hoshino has sent me several diff springs to try, they have gotten the same feedback.

jeffrg270 · #13 12-01-2003, 11:12 PM

Well, I pulled off the trem and looked at my knives and they look fine, and so do the posts...

granted, even with the pics on rich's website, I'm still not exactly sure I'd be able to tell unless my posts and knives are really messed up. I just haven't seen enough of them.

But I added some chapstick to the contact point, and surprisingly, that seems to have helped some. I'm going to order the set screws that have been pre-ground by rich as well as the 2002 studs, and see if that solves the problem completely...keeping my fingers crossed.

Let me know if if there's anything else that seems to help.

When it comes to bad posts and knives...should that be extremely obvious?
-J

Dr_Guitar · #14 12-01-2003, 11:44 PM

What guage strings do you use & what pattern are they in (straight/arrow)? I have several springs from a few sources, I'm measuring the tension & lenght of these springs & then testing them, recording the results. Im using a new RG1570 as a test mule. I also have a new Universe here to test. The 7 string guitar is much more stable & Im trying to figure out why. Who knows, Chapstick may be the answer

dex · #15 12-02-2003, 05:27 AM

I don't own a guitar with the new Edge Pro but all my floating bridge guitars come back to +/- 2cents appart from the G which sometimes comes back at +/- 5 cents from a pull up and that's only on a Jackson with a schaller FRII type trem.

I would say less than 5 cents is acceptable.
About the locking studs - I also think that they are very important for good tuning stability and that's why all my guitars have Ibanez flat bottomed inserts and locking studs - made my favorite guitar (ESP MII with schaller FRII) practicaly imposible to knock out of tune.

ilia

p.s. I prefer the Schaller FRII to the OFR because the schaller has mellower sound that is not as brittle and bright as the OFR.
Think Fender bright (OFR) and Gibson melow (Schaller FRII).