Action setup, used 3120 - I'm stumped

[dmike]

I got an awesome deal on a used RG3120 so I went ahead and bought it, but ... I just can't get the action that I'm looking for.

I've been working on this guitar for a couple of days now but no matter what I do I can't get the action down to a comfortable level. I'm not exactly a pro at these things, but I can usually get the setup I want by working slowly

What I'm currently looking at are these measurements, this is the best I can do without buzz and not choking the strings, I've included some numbers from the popular frets, using 9-42 gauge.

Open, low E:
fret 1: .6 mm
fret 7: 1.8 mm
fret 12: 2.1 mm
fret 24: 2.1 mm

Open, high E:
fret 1: .6 mm
fret 7: 1.6 mm
fret 12: 1.9 mm
fret 24: 1.9 mm

Bow measure, fretted at 1 and 24 (high and low E readings are the same):
fret 7: .6 mm
fret 8: .7 mm
fret 10: .7 mm
fret 12: .6 mm

The action numbers are a bit high. On the other guitars that I have the action is set to about 1.3 mm (high E) at fret 12, that's the lowest I can go according to my right hand.

The bow measure is really high but I just can't straighten it more or it will buzz at frets < 7. A is the most problematic string. I've checked the frets and they look alright, they're all at the same height.

I would like to straighten the bow and get the action down a bit but I think I've tried most combinations of bow and tremolo height but I can't get it right and I don't know where to go from here.

Do the numbers above ring any bell?

The tremolo is OK, it's parallel to the body. Apart from the action - it sounds like a dream.

[Gresh]

We'll all wait for Rich to come thundering in....he is the man regarding setup questions...but in the meantime I'll ask some questions

If you straighten the neck, i.e., reduce the bowing, what frets are effected with open string buzz. *It should be the 1st fret unless you have a fret level issues or a shim in the neck pocket working against you. *If the first fret is your problem with regard to the bow reduction...then you may benefit from shimming the nut enough to clear the first fret. *From there, you should be able to straighten the bow and get your bridge height to a comfortable level, with more consistent action all the way up the neck.

Again, this is only if your buzzing issues are on the first fret, or fairly close to the nut. *If you buzz elsewhere first...then you have other issues and a nut shim may not be the answer to your problem.

Disclaimer: *I am not a set-up pro...just thinking outloud mainly and a applying a little geometry.

[Gresh]

Oops, almost forgot...

Congrats on the new axe...those 3120s are great looking guitars :biggrin:

[dmike]

Thanks I really like this axe, it's one piece of fine equipment. I "upgraded" from an RG6, LA Custom Design (even though I got the 3120 for less). Now, if I just only could get the setup correct ... I'm giving it a couple of hours tweaking every day but I'm getting nowhere, one step forward and two back.

I'm no pro either but I've managed to setup the others I'm using by being careful and working slowly and I'm satisfied with those. But this one, I have absolutely no idea where to go next or what to try.

If I straighten the neck it will buzz from any fret < 7-9, the bridge height doesn't matter that much unless at obscene heights. At first I thought it was due to the (in my opinion) very small clearance at the first fret, a low nut, but even a fretted low F-note will buzz - at frets 2/3.

It's only with a pretty hefty bow that I can get rid of most of the buzz from the lower frets, open strings or not.

And it looks a bit strange, the strings are far from parallel with the freboard if I look at it from the side. The angle between the strings and the fretboard, from nut to bridge, is quite large, if you we're to make a triangle of the strings and fretboard with it's point at the nut. The heights I currently have are 0.6 mm at the first fret and 2.8/2.9 mm at the 24th for an open low E.

Even if I lower the bridge as far as possible I still have about 1.8 mm at the 24th fret, high E, which is really strange.

According to Ibanez instructions their factory defaults are 0.3-0.5 mm at fret 8 for the bow measure and 1.5 mm (high E) to 2.0 mm (low E) at fret 14 for action. Those are valid numbers for my other Ibanez gear but absolutely impossible with this one. The numbers I have, for a relatively buzz free setup, is 0.8/0.9 mm bow at the 8th fret (ugh) and action around 2.4 mm at the 14th (argh). That was about the setup it had when I got it.

I'll try to grab a digital camera and post some pictures from the neck, nut and bridge. As I said, I'm not sure what to do about this.

[Rich]

Straighten the neck as straight as possible and go over the problem areas with a steel mm rule checking for high and low frets.

You obviously need a neck shim if the trem won't lower any further than 1.8mm on the high e, either that or your trem angle is way off. If you haven't visited the tech section that's your first read.

[dmike]

(Had some technical difficulties while trying to reach the forums yesterday)

The frets looks alright to me, at least as far as I can tell.

And the trem setup should also be OK. The knife edges are parallel to the body if you look at the trem from the side.

The action is really that high at high e, fret 24 even if i lower the trem all the way down. I was afraid someone would say that it needed a neck shim. That's one modification I'm not so happy about. I mean, not really want to do.

If all goes well, I should have some pictures posted from the various parts later today. Check back later, the pictures perhaps tells you something that I can't see.

[dmike]

Hmm ... Pictures from the guitar as promised. Unfortunately, the digital camera was really bad. It didn't manage closeups so I couldn't get the pictures that I wanted to show. Anything closer than 25 cm ( 10" ) was not possible.

So string height, bow and other details aren't really there. I'll take some other pictures with a real camera later.

Anyway, for what it's worth:
http://rg3120.forselius.com/

(the page takes a little while to load)

By the way ... The sad part is that I still haven't managed go get any further with this guitar. No matter what I do, I can't straighten the neck (0.8/0.9 mm bow at fret without getting buzz at the lower frets. But I'm still trying

[Mark DY]

Neck shim, neck shim, neck shim.

Just do it! Go to the tech section on Rich's site and follow the directions.

Be not afraid.

[ripl3y]

I've had a similar problem before.

I have a block of hard wax (cut perfectly rectangular, approx 4 inches wide and 8 inches long. I straightened the neck (with the aid of a straight edge as a guide) and ran the wax up the fretboard (lightly)
Some frets picked up the wax, some didn't.
That basically told me I needed a fret level as the ones that picked up the wax were higher than the others.
Spotting high frets by eye or even with a straight edge can sometimes be difficult.
If you can find something that can leave a deposit on them it makes it much clearer.

I use a similar method when fretting a neck.
Before leveling the frets I straighten the neck and mark the frets with a black marker.
I run over them with a sandpapered radiusing block and the marker will come off some frets before others.
I then re-mark them and repeat the process until the response is the same from all.
I'm not suggesting you level your frets yourself, it's a scary process and I can do it on throwaway necks I've put together so it's not an issue for me. If it's really buggin' you though, take it in for some advice, and I can't stress how important it is to find a qualified and reputable luthier for this work.

Your problems may not be high frets, but if you can rule that out then you're closer to resolving the problem.

Good luck

Steve