Another sustain theory question !

[VBK-Shredder]

I was thinking how the standard spring claw fastens to the Jem body and I have to admit it looks weak. Pulling directly in line onto two screws fastened into the end grain of the guitar body is probably no the best idea.

Thinking about sustain I wonder if that feeble looking linkage from the springs to the guitar body is actually loosing tone and sustain. A better approach would surly be a sideways bracket so the screws would be in shear and not in line.

I have found this product from Schaller. http://schaller-guitarparts.de/hp819...DetailBild_box

This looks more like it to me. I can imagine the benefits of this, screws at right angle to pull, more mass, metal to metal adjustment and a more stable / direct contact with the guitar body.

So I guess my next question is has anyone tried one of these on a Jem and did they notice any difference ?

I intend to buy a ESP arming adjuster soon and I wonder if the Schaller sure claw and the ESPAA will both fit into the same cavity, anyone tried this before ?

Thanks.

[MarkE]

I think the springs will throw away most of the string vibration that hits them anyway, so I would guess that the design of the claw makes very little difference.

[VBK-Shredder]

Thanks for your reply.

I still think the “Sure Claw” would be more structurally sound than the standard method. Pulling against a wood screw in line with the grain is not very strong but I see your point about the springs being the “sustain drain” !

So…

More springs ?

Less, but more powerful springs ?

Shorter length springs so there is less vibration along them ?

One really thick short one might almost seem solid if it’s heavy enough.

Different spring material ?

Fit plastic tubes inside the springs to stop them vibrating ?

Larger diameter springs for more mass ?

Compression springs, fit them on the other side of the block to push it rather than pull it ?

Any ideas ?

[GuitarBizarre]

Not worth the time and effort. THe frabrication would be complicated and the increase in sustain would be practically nil.

[VBK-Shredder]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Not worth the time and effort. THe frabrication would be complicated and the increase in sustain would be practically nil.

Oh dear, this is what I was afraid of, I guess it isn’t that simple after all as one of the big guitar companies would have done something about it by now I suppose.

Perhaps I will have to look again at a sustainiac !!!

As you two seem interested in theory and sustain I would be grateful for your thoughts on the thread I have linked below.

http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/te...red-93200.html

Thanks for you help.

[buddroyce]

The Schaller sure claw uses up a bit too much space. While it might be posible to fit both the Sure Claw and an arming aduster in the same cavity, it really will depend on how big the cavity is routed. Quite honestly though, I wouldn't waste your money on the Sure Claw. Out of everything I've ever tried, the only things that seem to improve your tone and sustain is adding extra springs, installing the arming adjuster, installing a larger sized brass block.

My theory which I stand behind is the amount of string energy that gets transfered from the strings to the body with every touch point in between as something that will either dampen the signal (energy being absorbed or dissipated) or enhance it through harmonic resonance. Sustain is achieved from a combination of the natural note decay as well as the energy feedback going back to the string via the body and neck. The more efficient you get the amount of string energy to the body and back into the neck the more sustain you will get (a byproduct of that is a thicker fuller sounding tone).

The trem claw is really just one of the collection points in which the string energy is stored temporarily while it makes it way down to the body via the claw screws. While increasing the mass and efficiency of the trem claw could potentially improve your tone/sustain, you would need to make the springs more efficient first. For the amount of trouble you'd go through for that, you might as well just install an oversized brass block (which is a larger more harmonically rich holding tank) and the arming adjuster (which acts as a highly efficient short cut for the string energy to reach the body).

There's probably a whole bunch of other theories out there but I like using this one simply because it focuses on the fundamental force that's being transfered instead of just the touchpoints.

[VBK-Shredder]

Originally Posted by buddroyce

The Schaller sure claw uses up a bit too much space. While it might be posible to fit both the Sure Claw and an arming aduster in the same cavity, it really will depend on how big the cavity is routed. Quite honestly though, I wouldn't waste your money on the Sure Claw. Out of everything I've ever tried, the only things that seem to improve your tone and sustain is adding extra springs, installing the arming adjuster, installing a larger sized brass block.

My theory which I stand behind is the amount of string energy that gets transfered from the strings to the body with every touch point in between as something that will either dampen the signal (energy being absorbed or dissipated) or enhance it through harmonic resonance. Sustain is achieved from a combination of the natural note decay as well as the energy feedback going back to the string via the body and neck. The more efficient you get the amount of string energy to the body and back into the neck the more sustain you will get (a byproduct of that is a thicker fuller sounding tone).

The trem claw is really just one of the collection points in which the string energy is stored temporarily while it makes it way down to the body via the claw screws. While increasing the mass and efficiency of the trem claw could potentially improve your tone/sustain, you would need to make the springs more efficient first. For the amount of trouble you'd go through for that, you might as well just install an oversized brass block (which is a larger more harmonically rich holding tank) and the arming adjuster (which acts as a highly efficient short cut for the string energy to reach the body).

There's probably a whole bunch of other theories out there but I like using this one simply because it focuses on the fundamental force that's being transfered instead of just the touchpoints.

Hi buddroyce

Thank you for taking the time to write that, it makes sense and has given me something to think about.

[buddroyce]

Glad you found it useful, it's my basic thesis for my PhD (should I ever decide to actually pursue it).