Are there any problems with this? - Legal issues on a custom

[bubkus jones]

Ok, i am going to build a guitar, kind of a mesh of a JS1000 and JEM, with some extra modifications.

So, my problem is, if i were going to put an Ibanez headstock (straight like a JS, not angled like a JEM) would there be any legal issues I will encounter? I would only use it on this guitar, and maybe others i would build, if they suit the headstock. I'm not going to be selling these (and if I do start, I'll change it)


So, will Hoshino lawyers be knocking on my door with a C&D if i use it?

[bachle7]

It's perfectly legal to copy anyone's design as long as you do NOT sell it. *You should be in the clear. *I think Rich has given a fairly detailed discussion on this topic before.

[butch]

The headstock design is copywrited. If you use it, you can find yourself in trouble. Just ask Ed Roman.

Butch

[darren wilson]

Quote: from butch on 7:52 am on July 27, 2001
The headstock design is copywrited. If you use it, you can find yourself in trouble. Just ask Ed Roman.

You can use anything for your own personal use. If you try to sell it or make money of somebody else's intellectual property, then you'll get into legal hot water.

I've mentioned this before, so it's worth mentioning again... there's a difference between copyright (not "copywrite" ) and a trade mark. Copyright is protection granted to specific creative works... writing, music, dramatic works, graphic design, illustration, photography, sculpture, computer code, etc. Copyright protection is granted automatically to the creator at the time of a work's inception. No registration is necessary.

A trade mark is a more enforcible protection with a full legal registration process to ensure there are no conflicts with existing works when the trade mark is registered. A trade mark is a word, symbol or design, or combination of these, used to distinguish a company's products or services from those of another.

Companies like Fender and Ibanez have registered their distinctive headstock shapes as a part of their brand identity, to protect it from being ripped off and having consumers mistake it for the genuine article. Similarly, Ibanez has trade-marked the monkey grip and lion's claw, so they are the only ones allowed to make and sell guitars with these features.

Patents are a different beast still, which protect specific methods or functionality. (Like the Floyd Rose double-locking tremolo design.)

[butch]

Darren, I stand corrected. I had the meaning, but the wrong term.

[bubkus jones]

Hey thanks guys, just wanted to make sure.


and Butch, what did Ed Roman do?

[Project Guitar]

Quote: from bubkus jones on 9:23 pm on July 26, 2001
I would only use it on this guitar, and maybe others i would build, if they suit the headstock. I'm not going to be selling these (and if I do start, I'll change it)

Call me silly but I don't see a problem.......

I'm about 99.9999% sure Ibanez is not going to waste revenue dollars to hunt down and take to court somebody that is making a guitar that looks like a combination of there design for your own personal pleasure..... It would be a big waste of money for one and they wouldn't gain a thing from it other than the initial expense of doing it as a tax break.....

[jem7vwh]

I'll toss my two cents in:

Copyrights are those "rights" owned by the creator or original manufacturer of an idea. *When you record a song that you wrote, you automatically have the copyrights to it. *Later, if someone goes to a concert you give and later tries to pass the song off as their own, you can then try and sue for copyright infringement. *The catch here is that you must have some way to prove you were the original creator of said song.

Trademarks are more than just a product, but also in presentation. *For instance, not only has Coca Cola reserved the rights to their name, but they have also Trademarked the script logo for their name. *They want to make sure no one's brand emblem looks too much like theirs because of brand-name identification.

Ibanez trademarked their headstock and other design idiosyncracies to make sure another outside dealer doesn't copy them and try to pass the guitars off to unwitting buyers. *As long as you are not hurting their business or making any money off of their designs, I see no legal problem with putting any logo you want on it. *Look at it this way: *Coca Cola would have no problem with you mixing water, sugar and brown syrup, labelling it Coca Cola and drinking it in your bedroom. *They'd only crush you if you tried to sell it! *

Same with Ibanez. *If you love their guitars so much you want to make one that looks like theirs, great! *Just make sure you don't take any of their business.

[spiro]

I see no problem in using the headstock shape but dont go sticking the Ibanez Logo on it :biggrin:



(Edited by spiro at 9:51 pm on Aug. 19, 2001)

[7 Dying Trees]

Are you talking about cutting the headstock yourself? I wouldn't worry if you are not selling it. Ibanez are hardly going to come down hard on one person who has made himself a guitar, it's not worth their hassle. If you started selling them, now that'd be a different matter. I've put together guitars from ibanez parts, quite a few people here have modified/rebuilt/are building guiatars (Have a look at Ripl3y's stuff, should be a thread about somewhere, he's carved his own guitar+ibanez headstock) so I don't think it will a problem at all...

But yeah, go ahead, put your guitar together, and then show us the pics so we can drool over them!

Good luck!

[ripl3y]

It doesn't bother my at the moment (the gitar I've made) as like you say it's for personal use.

But my plans in the future are to get busy making JEM/RG + some of my own body's.
My worry here is obviously re-pro'ing the JEM/RG body's
A few people do it and some are very visual with it, i.e. CGWI.
I doubt Ibanez grant any sort of permission to re-produce body's etc... so it's just down to riding your luck.

Brian,
What's your take on the mod work you do?

Steve

[bluenote]

its when you copy the headstock and place your logo on it when you get in trouble.....many companies will license there headstock shapes to be made by other manufacturers....fyi, fender is not granting any more companies permision to make replacement necks


taken from a conversation i had with wayne charvel

[GhesQi J]

I don't think there will be a problem if you copy a whole guitar or a just a headstock.
The point is that it's for personal use.

I've even seen guitars with a similar headstock as the one on an Ibanez.
Name of the guitar: cool.
they're cheap beginner guitars and are sold at my local guitarshop.
From a distance and with an untrained eye, it's hard to see the difference with a real ibanez.
For a picture, go here: http://www.piens.be/database/product.lasso?pr=1113
Off course it isn't an exact copy of an Ibanez headstock, but it comes pretty close.

As far as I know they didn't have any problems with legal issues regarding their headstockdesign.

anyway, go ahead and copy the ibanez headstock. As long as you don't sell it, there will be no problem at all.

Joten

[SilverSurfer2]

what about the Js donnie hunt replicas??
I've seen several replicas done by some, and they are selling them.
Are there not any copyrights with this design??
Are these ppl at big risk?

And what about ppl who are making replacement bodies not affiliated with the true manufacturer??
I mean, they are making money off from someone's intellectual design...right??

[SilverSurfer2]

what about if you took the Ibanez headstock or body but made a very small
change to them to make them different (i.e. having the pointy tip of the
headstock on the high side instead of the low side, or sanding the
pointy tip at a little angle to make it look like a sharp tooth)
Now this is someone who is making "their own" guitar with the intent
of selling it in the future.
would a small change like this stir up trouble with ibanez, provided that
he wouldn't put the ibanez logo on the headstock or anywhere else,
only his logos.