basswood vs. basswood - sound problems...

Marko@Rockvoice · #1 01-31-2008, 05:59 AM

Hey!

I have two Ibanez RG Prestige basswood guitars that I love to play but...

they sound completely different. This is not a problem of pickups or whatever kind of gear. I am talking about the "unplugged" sound of the guitars.

The first one is a RG 2620 with an amazing sound: highs and lows, no muddy mids, prescence, definition, lots of attack and harmonics. All in all the best shredding-guitar ever...

The second is a RG 1527 with the same specs. Same body, same routing, same tremolo with one additional string. But: where are the highs and the low ends, the definition the attack?
I tried a lot, but nothing worked to improve the sound. Sometimes it just sounds like my cheap OLP Petrucci with cheap basswood body...

On some Ibanez specs sites I've seen that there's a difference between basswood and american basswood. In the 2008's German catalogue it is only the JEMs and UV's that are made of american basswood.
Is there a general sound difference between these?

Who has got an idea how to improve the sound of my 1527?
Would a UV-body be the solution or could it have that problems, too?

Thanks in advance!

Marko

ryanb · #2 01-31-2008, 09:37 PM

There can be a lot of difference from one piece of wood to another -- especially between species (essentially different woods). Plus there can be effects from the number of pieces in the body, etc.

How can you improve the sound? Plug it in. Frankly, if it sounds good plugged in, it doesn't really matter that much, does it? If you still think it sounds bad, then either trade it in for another guitar you like better or try swapping pickups for something that might improve the sound to you.

albee1952 · #3 02-01-2008, 09:56 PM

I have another point of view on this one. I never plug a guitar in if I am trying it for purchase. If it sounds good unplugged(just like you described the 2620) it will sound good plugged in (and pickups can be changed to alter the flavor). But a guitar that sounds dull and dead unplugged will always suck unless there are physical factors that can be fixed. Loose parts(like the locking nut or the neck bolts) can hurt tone. Bad or tired strings (are the music stores listening??). A poorly cut nut or bridge slots. But if all those points are good and the guitar sounds like crap unplugged, then it is a crappy piece of wood and I steer clear of it. Every piece of wood has the potential to sound different so maybe you should think about a new body out of alder or ash to improve the 1527.

Jaden · #4 02-02-2008, 06:36 AM

ive seen quite a bit of variation in basswood's that I work with.
ive had some from warmoth that was tight and straight grained and even if you rapped on it with your knuckle it almost rang... very nice..

iva had other stuff as well (looked the smae) that I couldnt tell where it came from and the texture when it was cutting was like fluff... and when I rapped the blank it just kind of went "thud" like it was wet or something..
I import basswood from a north American hardwood specialist now and it costs more but looks and feels great - it looks just like the stuff that the early JEM7RB's were made of - it has a nice looking grain to it and sounds good.

so not all basswood is created equally, although this is common knowledge.....
albee is right, you can tell without plugging it in and I can tell by the way it cuts what is going to be like.

Dee · #5 02-02-2008, 06:46 AM

I often wonder, what's the deal with heavier vs lighter basswood? My RG 20th is a pretty heavy chunk, so much so that I was almost convinced it's something other than basswood when I first got it, but all previous RG's I've owned have been quite a bit lighter. What are the differences?

resha · #6 02-02-2008, 07:55 AM

I think this is the main issue basswood had years ago when most of the bodies were made of basswood and slowly the sound quality became a big variable from one piece to another.

So the whole world moved to alder (cost matters too) which seemed to have a more "standard" quality from tree to tree.

Now I notice the same thing in alder too. If you go in a shop and try 10 strats' you'll probably find one which is mile above the others (well, maybe you have to try hundreds

), but if you're planning to get a custom Suhr or Tom Anderson alder body model you'll be 100% sure it will sound incredibly good.

So anything influences an instrument sound and wood quality is one of the most important aspects. If Fender and Gibson mind to put most of their woods in a "oven" to dry faster looking for the perfect table... then it will sound crap. Ask Suhr or Tom Anderson or Tyler for their methods with woods and you'll see the difference (and probably guess why their guitars are so good).

Dee · #7 02-02-2008, 08:57 AM

Most Ibanez bodies nowadays are still made from basswood. This hasn't changed. I think it's time they changed, though. We are getting basswood all the time because 1: Steve Vai uses it (or used to use it), so somehow Ibanez assume everyone else wants to be like Steve, and 2: it's cheap, easily available and kind to woodworking tools.

Marko@Rockvoice · #8 02-03-2008, 08:19 AM

Thanks for your replies, guys!
But still the problem remains... I cannot ask an online store to send me 4 UVs for testing... Local stores don't have these upper-classed guitars.
Moreover, the H-S-H with pickguard is not my favorite choice.

Perhaps Alder is an alternative to basswood that sounds good or not by accident...
I once had the JEM 7VWH and I loved the sound. But I am not sure it is has been the body wood or the combination with ebony fretboard.

Silverburst · #9 02-03-2008, 11:08 AM

I wondered about the same thing, if there is some relations to the weight. I have 3 basswood RG types as well, and just did a quick weighing for fun:
JEM7DBK ('04) : 3170gr
RG570 ('99) : 3573gr
RGR570 ('97) : 3655gr
the Jem feels like a featherweight compared to the RG's, so I did expect a bigger difference. The Jem played unplugged has the most 'vibes' noticable trough the instrument.

Scali · #10 02-03-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marko@Rockvoice

Perhaps Alder is an alternative to basswood that sounds good or not by accident...
I once had the JEM 7VWH and I loved the sound. But I am not sure it is has been the body wood or the combination with ebony fretboard.

Well I had an RG570CT, which also has an alder body, but a standard Wizard II neck with rosewood. It sounded way different to any other RG, and I really liked that one aswell. Its tone is quite similar to that of Vai's Evo, which is the prototype for the 7VWH, so I guess it's mainly alder you're hearing.
I personally avoid basswood guitars, I think the sound is quite dry in general. I like alder and mahogany.

Oh and Ibanez had been using basswood way before Steve Vai joined them and the Jem was released. Old Roadstars were basswood aswell... In fact even Steve Lukather had an Ibanez signature at one point, which was basically a basswood Roadstar with a maple cap. He didn't stay with Ibanez for long, so I guess he hated the tone. He later got the famous Valley Arts guitars, which were also alder, one of them with a maple top.

Marko@Rockvoice · #11 02-15-2008, 04:54 AM

UPDATE:

Yesterday I got a UV777 body. It weighs less than my 1527 body.
After having fit the tremolo and the neck I could not wait to test it and put strings on it without having connected the electronics yet.
My first impression: TOTALLY different! It did not sound the way I expected it to, but I was suprised.
Unplugged, the guitar is twice as loud as it was before now. And the tone rings longer than it did wiht the old body.
All in all it does not sound like my great 6-string (the sound I was looking for) but I think it is a good sign that it is louder now and with more sustain.

Or what are your experiences? Has "loudness" nothing to do with "good wood"?

resha · #12 02-15-2008, 05:55 AM

I think it can depend on your body's mass.

A 7 strings has more mass (the neck is bigger) hence "more sound".

Dee · #13 02-15-2008, 08:05 AM

My RG550 20th Anniversary sounds way better than my RG7421, though, both acoustically and plugged in.

DavyH · #14 02-15-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albee1952

I have another point of view on this one. I never plug a guitar in if I am trying it for purchase. If it sounds good unplugged(just like you described the 2620) it will sound good plugged in (and pickups can be changed to alter the flavor). But a guitar that sounds dull and dead unplugged will always suck unless there are physical factors that can be fixed. Loose parts(like the locking nut or the neck bolts) can hurt tone. Bad or tired strings (are the music stores listening??). A poorly cut nut or bridge slots. But if all those points are good and the guitar sounds like crap unplugged, then it is a crappy piece of wood and I steer clear of it. Every piece of wood has the potential to sound different so maybe you should think about a new body out of alder or ash to improve the 1527.

What Albee said. I only plug in if I'm choosing between two equally good guitars. My amp model isn't available for demo at the local shop, so I probably won't be able to replicate what I hear plugged in.