Help please! Strings choke on intonation screws

[TripleFan]

Hi,

I did a full setup on my Edge loaded RG520 yesterday. It went all fine, checked and set neck relief, trem angle, action and intonation roughly based on Richīs guides on Ibanezrules.
I set the trem dead neutral to the body, the knife edges a little bit above the route and the action about 2mm on 24th.
Guitar played great, virtually no buzz all over the fretboard.
But when I did a full pull up on the trem the strings immediatly choked out. OK, gotta trade pull up range for action, so I raised action to about 3mm on low E over 24th.

Now the strings choke out just a tad before the trem bottoms out. But then I realized that the strings do not choke on the frets but theyīre hit by the intonation screws as the trem tilts backwards!
Now this leaves me a bit confused...

Is there anything I can do about this? Actually there must, because it didnīt do this before my setup attempt (with the action about 4mm!!!).
Neck shim? Trem angle? Any suggestions?

Thanx in advance!
Triple

[sniperfrommars1]

Before you changed the neck releif the tremolo was most likely sitting lower in the body. Thus when you did a pullup before the tremolo itself bottomed out in either the inside of the pocket, or the post were hitting the back of the cavity. Now that you have adjusted neck releif to be straighter (i assume) you have had to raise overall bridge height and yet again. So you either

A. Have reached the full range of pullup available to the edge.

B. Dont have enough releif in the neck

While their are a number of things possible, you could remove the washer from beneath the intonation screw although this is not suggested it will give you a touch more pullup range.


Im sure others could chime in with their responses.

[King Nothing]

I agree with Sniper on this one

On mine, the trem bottomed out first so I angled the neck. Now the the strings choke out on the frets. I don't have my edge around here but looking at my lo-pro, if your hitting your intonation screws, then that's the maximum pull up value you could ever get. I supppse you could file down the tops of the screws a little but youd be weakening them. I would think if you can choke the strings there, then that's amazing. What is your pull-up range on the open G string? Haha, looks like I'd be able to get an octave if my strings choked out there. I'd say lower the action back down to get a balance between the trem bottoming out and the strings hitting the screws, cuz it's not gonna matter how high you get if that's happening and I don't think neck angle would do anything.
You could angle your trem slightly forward and that would help but you'll end up going out of tune easier
-chris

[TripleFan]

Well actually I gave the neck some more bow īcuz initally it was really flat and I got some light buzzing on the lower frets.
Next the action was set to about 4mm before I set it up. Now iīm about 3mm so the bridge should sit deeper in the body.

It takes me wonder that it didnīt do this choking before the setup. I can accept that I may have reached the max pullup range. But on the other hand it used to bottom out without choking... I donīt get it.

Well shiming the neck will change nothing - Iīm completely with you in this one.
I may try angling the trem a tad forward. Got no serious tuning probs so far so this might work.

I will check for the pullup range on open G when Iīm at home (at work at the moment). Curious myself...

I disassembled the Edge for cleaning prior to setup. Is there a possibility I assembled it wrong? Honestly I donīt think so - but who knows...
Never heard about choking on the intonation screws so there might be a failiure in my assembly.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by TripleFan

I disassembled the Edge for cleaning prior to setup. Is there a possibility I assembled it wrong? Honestly I don´t think so - but who knows...
Never heard about choking on the intonation screws so there might be a failiure in my assembly.

Did you put it back together right? Just check your saddles. The low E and the high E should be the shortest, the A & the B a little taller, and the D & G should be the tallest saddles. My friend took apart his trem once and put them back wrong, then gave it to me to setup, here's what it looked like: see how the 5th string is actually lower than the 6th!

[TripleFan]

Spent two more hours this afternoon fiddling with the setup. Angled the trem slightly forward, lowered action to 2mm, brought trem back neutral, raised action back to 3mm - the result is always the same. Choke, choke, choke...

Checked the assembly - no problem. Payed attention beforehand that I donīt mix up the parts.
Although, what I found is that the washers of the intonation screws on high and low E string must have slipped under the saddle. I think this happend during intonation. Corrected it - but to no avail...

Strings keep choking out on intonation screws. At least on a open pull up. Say if I pull up a high E on 12th it frets out before choking. I could fight that with rising the action but right at the moment Iīm about 2,8mm on low E and a little bit lower on high E.
I donīt get how Rich can set up his guitars under 2mm with full pullup range?! Oh well, heīs the master, Iīm a novice...
However, interesting is, that I have two saddles where the intonation is that far back that I use the screw holes further back on the trem. On these saddles the strings donīt choke.

BTW, pullup range is somewhere between C# and D on open G. Not too bad I think.

I think I leave it alone for the moment. Eventually I place a piece of wood in the trem cavity to bottom the trem out before choking the strings.
Slowly the hex sockets on the intonation screws start to give way and I have no spares here at the moment.
Well, I wanted to bring my RG570 to a guitar tech for a refret anyway. Maybe I let him have a look on the setup of the RG520, too.

[King Nothing]

Not bad at all, Ibanez advertised the Edge saying a 5th of pullup and you've got that if you getting G to a D.
Maybe I'm wrong on this but the way I see it, to get maximum pullup you'll need level frets. If the trem bottoms out, you can angle the neck back to raise it up but if you angle it too much, the strings will choke on the neck before the trem bottoms out. I would think the best situation for max pullup would be to shim the front and back of the neck pocket to evenly raise the neck up so you can pull back on the trem farther but not fret out as soon as an angled neck.

[TripleFan]

Well I see what you say. But I think to maximize what I will call "the mechanical pullup range" for the moment will not cure the problem. See, my strings choke on the trem before it bottoms out. So pushing the moment of bottoming out back any further would not cure the problem. Correct me if Iīm wrong...

On the other hand if I fret 12th on the high E the string frets out before choking so I might need an ample neck shim.

Leaves me a little bit confused alltogether...

[sniperfrommars1]

If your hitting the intonation screw your at the maximum pullup range allowed for the trem, you can increase it slightlyt hough by loosening the trem screws abit and having the trem float a bit before neutral, this will likely lessen tuning stability to a degree, and wont fix it from bottoming out either, but you have the pullup range your trem is supposed to right now.

[TripleFan]

Iīve already tried angling the trem a bit above neutral but the amount of travel before bottom out is to big to be cured that way.
Today I released the neck a little bit because I realized that there was to much bow. Of course that changed nothing on the choking (in fact it wasnīt supposed to...).

I attached a pic of the trem so you can look and see that the saddles are staggered correct.


I think the problem is caused by the intonation itself. It seems that the neck and the trem are a bit too close together. I have to place the intonation screws on the furthermost edge of the saddles. When you visualize the radius the screws and on the other hand the string guiding edges travel around the pivot point it seems clear to me that the screws have to hit the strings.


As said I think I will bottom out the trem a little earlier. Iīm not hunting for the ultimate pullup range. I rather have a solid fourth pullup when the trem bottoms out as to worry that I have to pay attention that I donīt pull the trem to much in the heat of the battle on stage...
Other than that the guitar plays great and Iīm really happy with it given this is my first setup.

[sniperfrommars1]

The intonation screws position is correct actually, their are no hidden scale issues its just that your trem sits further out of the body than normal. Have you tried removing the washer there?

[TripleFan]

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

The intonation screws position is correct actually, their are no hidden scale issues its just that your trem sits further out of the body than normal.

Thatīs what I wanted to say with my last post. I guess with the baseplate of the trem sitting not so close to the neck the screws would sit more into the saddles not choking the strings. But thereīs nothing I can change about it - at least if I donīt want start routing... so itīs the way it is.

I havenīt tried removing the washers. As said the hex sockets start to wear out and I have no spares. Eventually Iīll try that later when I have new screws.

Triple

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by TripleFan

On the other hand if I fret 12th on the high E the string frets out before choking so I might need an ample neck shim.

don't worry about adding a neck shim, it will actually make your pullup value worse

[TripleFan]

Yup, realised that already.

[guitarsalad14]

i feel lucky . I've got my action at 1.2 mm on the low side at 12th fret and full pullup range