How to setup really Low action on my Ibanez?

[Nik_Left_RG]

Hello all,

It would be of great help if you guys can help me out over this. I am using an RG370dxL with EdgeIII.. As i lower the bridge,the counter effective pull (for the whammy) gets shorter.. eg. cant pull off really high reverse pull offs.. I have tried adjusting the truss rod but i am not really sure how much bow is needed.. i did give it 1/2 a wind to loosen it up.. the strings seem to get stiffer or is tht just my imagination.Also,fret buzz hwhich was there at the 4-5th are gone now and shiftd to the 15th.. bummer!!

Well, I have read the tech support from various sites about this.. but i cant seem to find the appropriate page..

Help would be appreciated a lot!!

thanks in advance.

[Ibateur]

As far as I know, the effective pull depends on the trem recess. You could be hitting the wood with the low trem. That's an effect of lowering your trem, naturally.

Truss rod adjustment will allow you to set lower action, but will typically not affect how far back you can pull the trem. It will also help to reduce your buzzing depending on string gauge and action. It could be that to totally eliminate buzz with super low action, you may have to have some frets filed down.

[andy7jem]

Originally Posted by Ibateur

You could be hitting the wood

[SeanB]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

Get your mind out of the sewer

[Nik_Left_RG]

hmm... You might be right there,Ibateur. These are Jumbo frets anyway!!
Thanks ..I'll look up on tht.. What i hve is abt 0.7 - 0.8 mm clearance at the 8th fret on the high 6 and abt 2 - 2.5 at the 24.. Is tht way too much inclination?? I am wondering whether i should tinker around with the truss rod a while but i am scared if i would do harm the fretboard(being winter ,thus lesser temp.)

[Ibateur]

Not sure if the ibanezrules (banner up there) describing what is too much.

The general advice is not to make too large changes on the truss rod without letting the neck itself adjust first. So, if you do, even if it is winter, be cautious.

The other thing that comes to mind is maybe the neck angle can be shimmed.

[Jamie]

Is it just me, or did the first post make no sense? Nik if you describe accurately whats going on you will get more help.

Do you mean you are lowering the bridge at the trem posts, only to find that the trem when you pull it up, "bottoms out" on the fretboard?

Bow in the neck won't affect this. I don't know what you mean by "eg. cant pull off really high reverse pull offs." Pull-offs? or Pull-ups? What is reverse about them?

Clarify and we can help more. FYI I believe you can get something like .8 - 1m at the 24th (with the string helt down at the first fret) but 1.5-2 is more consistent so you aren't far off.

I believe a perfect 4th pull-up on the G is what Rich aims for on setups.

[Nik_Left_RG]

Yes Jamie .. I am lowering the bridge at the trem posts. The back of the of the trem now touches the cavity wood when i do high reverese pull ups.. I guess i lost somewhere around one note on the pull ups.. Used to be able to pull up the G string (4th fret harmonic) till.. say C .. now down to B.. Thts the effect of lowering the bridge.(As it sits down further into the cavity,the reverse pull up RANGE gets decreased because as i pull up the back of the trem touches the wood).. FYI,the buzz at the 15th fret is tolerable now when played through an amp.. not losing much there..

What I am looking for is the same range as before (on pull ups) with lower action.. So,is there anything else that should be done? 0.8 - 1 mm at the 24th would be a dream setup btw..

P.S. How do i know whether the neck angle is shimmed ?And does this have anything to do with adjusting action?

Thanks to all for helping out! Appreciated!!

[Ibateur]

Shimming "can" change the angle of the neck, if done right. You can imagine that if the neck angle is changed a bit, you can maintain high trem "action" while maintaining low neck action. I believe this possible, but don't know the best thing to use to shim.

Rich does: http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/grunge/grunge_6.htm

[reguv760]

P.S. How do i know whether the neck angle is shimmed ?And does this have anything to do with adjusting action?

if you unscrew the neck, the neck pocket should have a business card thick paper towards the back of the neck. That paper is the shim. This is common on non-AANJ Ibanez's but i'm not sure if they're common on newer Edge III AANJ guitars.
The neck angle is the last resort towards what you're achieving. My experiment on my UVGR turned out better; I had to add another piece of cardstock paper [at this point, same thickness as a business card folded in half]. This new neck angle somehow lowered my Lo-Pro7 to almost Edge Pro height after loosening the trussrod and readjusting the bridge angle... I can still do 4th+ pullups at this depth. Not sure if your RG has the same depth though....



Reg

[Jamie]

OK whoa whoa dont shim your neck yet.

I don't know whether I am missing something or if everybody is ignoring the obvious.

But if the *strings* aren't bottoming out on the fretboard, then you can get some extra pullup from the trem by loosening the springs, and letting the trem angle raise somewhat.

So off the top of my head here is roughly what you should do. I can get you measurements later.

Unscrew locking nut before you start. Remove back trem cover.

1) Lower bridge until you are happy with rough action.
2) Tune back to pitch

3) Loosen trem springs all together, a quarter turn at a time. The trem should end up about the same angle as judasbane's, with the base of the trem parallel to the body of the guitar. Keep tuning back to pitch as you adjust this. Also keep depressing the trem arm and let it return to pitch from loose, as this is its 'home point'.

See what kinda of pullup you get. You may be able to increase the trem angle very slightly over what is normally acceptable to get the increased movement you need. But I think if you do this, you will find your action raising slightly again. Don't get into a cycle where you are lowering tremposts and raising angle and getting nowhere.

4) If you can get to a stage you are happy with here, you can finish your setup. It really does depend how much wood you have behind the trem.

5) Hold down string at 1st & 24th fret, adjust for a small amount of relief - this is where I need to come back to you with measurements I dont know em off the top of my head. Its small enough you need feeler guages.

6) Once relief is set, let it all settle, tune to pitch an hour later, trem depress & reset, check, repeat if necessary.

7) If action, trem angle and neck relief are set and you have buzz only at the 15th you are doing pretty good. Prolly just need the fret dressed very slightly at the 16th.

Intonate, tighten locking nut, play for a week or two, see how you go.

The other thing you may be able to do, is lower the saddles on the trem if they are all set high? Unlikely but worth checking. If they all go to the lowest point they can be, the trem baseplate can come maybe 1mm higher without changing your string action.

This latter is something I wouldn't attempt unless you're desperate, as is the neck shim. I personally don't see how the neck shim will affect you pulling up the trem and hitting wood, if the strings don't flatten out against the neck.

It will raise the 24th fret a tad, meaning you can raise the trem a tad and get say 1/32 of an inch higher at the trem posts with the same effective action. I can't see that giving you an extra 2 semitones of pullup.

[Ibateur]

Originally Posted by Jamie

OK whoa whoa dont shim your neck yet.

I don't know whether I am missing something or if everybody is ignoring the obvious.

But if the *strings* aren't bottoming out on the fretboard, then you can get some extra pullup from the trem by loosening the springs, and letting the trem angle raise somewhat.

I did assume that his trem is set properly (parallel).

[Nik_Left_RG]

I am overwhelmed to say the least guys.. Thanks to all for the suggestions.


Yes Ibateur.. My trem is set parallel to the body.. No problems there..

And jamie, wont the tuning be screwed up if i keep adjusting the back springs?? I get the best stability, tuning wise when the trems are parallel to the body.. much less string breakage too.. Though, i have roughly done what you have suggested..

1. Lowered the action a bit.
2. Released the springs a bit from the back.
3. tuned and trem is parallel (or looks like it)

There doesnt seem to be much difference in action though but i have managed to eliminate the buzz at the 15th fret.. Its probably around 2mm at the 24th on the high E right now.. Measured it with the plectrums(1mm ones)
I am not sure abt the amt of wood at the back of the trem though.. Might help if i route out some but dont wanna do any woodwork right now..

Question: I see the slight bow now due to the loosening i did. Would this bow get more pronounced as the temperature dips?

[Jamie]

Yup, sorry if I wasn't clear.

You need to keep the trem pretty close to parallel. But as you lowered it into the body, the relative tensions can alter and it might have been angled back a bit.

So dont *keep* adjusting them. Just let them out a bit until you are 100% sure you are parallel again. You can go a bit past if this is the be-all and end-all of your setup.

Your bow should be very very very slight. And as the temperature changes, any neck will change somewhat, perhaps. Doesn't matter if its bowed, or dead straight, temperature and humidity will alter through the year, so just keep checking it.

So whats the situation with your saddles?

[Ibateur]

What exactly do you mean with lowering the saddles? That's not making sense to me. Do you mean removing any shims if there are any?