I need help from someone with experience.

[D a v i d]

I recently bought a RG2620QM and I found the action was a bit too high, more than 3 mm at the last fret. I tried to lower the trem but the lower string started to buzz right away. I figured I had to give the neck some relief so I began adjusting the truss rod. After just two 1/16th turns I found the truss rod completely loose. The neck got some relief (though less than I expected) but to my disappointment the buzz was still there. I have also checked the nut and it seems fine. There’s a 0.3 mm shim under the treble side and a 0.1 mm under the bass side.
So now I ‘m wondering what to do next. Is the next step to check the neck pocket or is there some thing else I should do first? I’m not very exited about removing the neck, but if that’s what it takes… Could someone with more experience help me out here? There must be someone here who can advice me. By the way, the guitar is tuned to “D” and the strings are D'Addario 0.10-0.46 …I soon know Rich’s tech section by heart =)

[Satchriossi]

Don't freak out about buzz - all my guitars buzz because of the type of setup i give each of them - but it isn't a problem, just a trade off of a setup that eases playing arppegios and legato lead licks. The important thing is that there is no single fret that has significantly more buzz than the others. If you want a low action you will have to live with buzz. Don't judge too hard from the unplugged buzz sound either - plug in and play to see how buzz affects tone with varying picking strength and while playing clean and with dist.

Don't take the neck off - your problem isn't there, BUT if you do - The lower wall of the neck pocket is VERY thin and will snap if you try to move the neck from side to side to help ease it out! DON'T!! Rocking up and down is ok, but be very careful anyway.

When setting action, consider BOTH bridge height AND neck bow relative to eachother. This might make no sense to you now but once you get your head round it - everything becomes clear and setup problems are easy to solve.

[Satchriossi]

Being tuned to D on tens will make buzz on that string worse because the string's amplitude will be greater thanks to the reduced tension - try using at least a guage 11 string for the low E if you intend to keep this tuning.

[D a v i d]

Well, I’m ok with some buzzing but the thing is that it buzzes too much all over the fret board and the action is not even under 3 mm at the last fret. I have all my guitars tuned to “D” (except for my Universe) and none of them buzz this way. Since truss rod adjustment didn’t help I thought there was something wrong with the neck angle, but I don’t know. I wanted to remove the neck to check for shims. If there is a shim in the bridge side, don’t you think removing it could help some? Or am I talking through my hat here? I totally agree with you about trying thicker strings - at least for the bass side. I’ll give it a try before doing anything else. And since we’re talking strings now; what would actually be the beast gauges for a setup I “D”?? Anyway, thanks for the input so far.

[jb4674]

It really can't hurt to remove the shim if there's one under the neck. If you take out the neck and there's no shim, then you know you need one.

Jimmy

[D a v i d]

OK, let’s say there’s no shim there. Then I should put a shim on the headstock side of the neck pocket (to get more angle towards the body)? Is that what you mean?

[jb4674]

No, you would put the shim at the bridge side of the pocket. Check out the pics on Rich's tech section.

Jimmy

[D a v i d]

Ernie Ball’s "Skinny Top Heavy Bottom" strings are: 10-13-17-30-42-52. Maybe these could be an advantage on this guitar since it’s tuned to “D” and all? Any opinions about them? Is there a better alternative for d-tuning?

[D a v i d]

Originally Posted by jb4674

No, you would put the shim at the bridge side of the pocket. Check out the pics on Rich's tech section.

Jimmy

Yes, I know his tech section, I've read it many times. The thing is that I really don't get it... How can this help me get rid of the buzz? Please try to explain how the neck shim works.

[jb4674]

If you're tuning "down" to D, it would make sense that you would experience some degree of buzzing, increase the action and the buzzing should go away. Although the guitar is tuned and there is tension on the strings, they are slacked a bit because the guitar is tuned down. If the guitar had been untouched to begin with, you would've seen that the trem would've gotten a bit recessed by tuning down to D. At least that's what I'm guessing now, since I've had a bit of time to think about this.

I could be wrong about this but, I think that makes sense.

Jimmy

[D a v i d]

Yes, I’m totally with you here. The trem “lowers” when I tune down and I compensate this by adjusting the screws in the trem cavity. This is the basics when adjusting the trem to a correct position. But, I still don’t get the point of adding a shim to the body side of the neck pocket…

[jb4674]

You add a shim to the neck when you have buzzing issues after the truss is done and the action is set. At this point, I wouldn't remove the shim or add one if there isn't one. I had totally forgotten about the string gauge and the tuning. I'm assuming you loosened the claw screws to raise the back of the trem and level it, correct? Make sure that the knife edges are parallel to the body according to Rich's pics.

Jimmy

[Satchriossi]

The type of shimming you're talking about won't help you, they are only needed when there isn't enough adjustment in the bridge to achive the setup you want or if maybe you wanted the bridge to sit lower in the cavity for some reason? The last lot of frets from like, 15 to 24 are on a part of the neck that has maybe no useful amount of bow in it at all and where the angle is determined by the neck pocket, shimming the neck will just alter the angle of this area relative to the bridge. Instead you want to be altering the height of the bridge relative to this 'flat' area to avoid buzz because it achieves the same thing and isn't nearly as hard, risky (or pointless) to do...

ALSO! if you shim the neck you will reduce the contact area between body and neck and will likely start having problems with the neck moving from side to side if you move around much whilst playing - which throws the tuning flat on one side and sharp on the other. Others may argue this alters sustain and tone aswell because of the reduced contact - it doesn't, they're on crack.

When you say 3mm for your action height - what is this measured between? Top of fret wire to bottom of string or top of fret wire to top of string?

Just to clarify - is your neck bowing the right way? The ibanez prestige manual section on truss rod adjustment is wrong so don't go by what that says.

Please measure the action at fret 5 and fret 24 for both high and low E strings and tell me what you've got.

As for strings - read that thread about how 'our string guages are all wrong'. Its interesting and speaks less negatively about hybrid string sets like the one you mention than it does about normal sets. In my opinion the hybrid set is a good move for you.

[D a v i d]

OK ok ok, I won’t bother taking the neck off. I see what you mean. And it makes sense. To clear things up, I measure from the top of the fret wire to the bottom of the string – the clearance in between so to speak.
5th fret, low E: 1,2 mm
5th fret, high E: 1,0 mm
24th fret, low E: 3 mm
24 th fret, high E: 1,8 mm

With this setup there’s just a little buzz – which I can accept, but if I go any lower, the buzz starts to get ugly. I don’t need to get ridiculously low but at around 2 mm would be nice.

If I fret the first and the last fret, the clearance is something like 0,2-0,4 mm at the 9th fret (it’s hard to measure). So yes, the neck is bowing the right way. Where is the Prestige manual wrong by the way?

I did read the thread you mentioned some time ago and it was interesting (and long). I think I’ll start by changing strings to a thicker gauge on the bass side to see what happens. When you think of it¸ it seems wrong to have 0,46 on a d-tuned guitar.
Thanks for the great input!

“…they’re on crack.” He he he…

[Satchriossi]

i jus wrote a great big detailed reply then lost it in a power cut... my heart is broken.

So, the simplified version is - in the manual it says if you tighten the truss rod(turn clockwise) it bows the neck up in the direction that the strings pull. WRONG. The truss rod counters the pull of the strings, tightening it flattens the neck out or bows it in the wrong direction if you tighten enough - thereby working against the strings, not with them.

The diagrams on the opposite page are wrong, A and B are reversed.

Someone in Japan needs to be dropping on their seramonial sword for that one.

The action at fret five on my RG is the same as yours but i have 1.4mm clearance on both sides at the 24th. Your 3mm action on the bass side is indeed unacceptably high!

Try to match my action;

First, lower your bridge to get 1.4mm on both high and low sides at the 24th fret. Now measure the 5th fret action again.

If it is now LOWER than mine (1mm and 1.2mm, like yours is now) then you need more neck bow - slacken the truss rod (turn anticlockwise) by an eighth of a turn.

Keep moving the bridge and tweaking the truss rod until you have the same measurements as me.

You might go too far with the truss rod on first attempt at matching my measurements - if you do just start tightening the rod in 16ths of a turn to get back to where you want to be. BUT - do this with no tension on the strings. Find something to block your trem to save time when re tuning.

The idea you have to understand is that your action is determined by the amount of neck bow relative to the bridge height so both will need slight tweaks as you get nearer the best setup.

Please let me know how you get on.